Vineyard beaches open for Memorial Day

Governor’s guidelines begin to take root as the season starts.

Lambert's Cove Beach will open with some guidelines for visitors. - Rich Saltzberg

Updated May 21 

With Memorial Day close at hand, beachgoers will find themselves in atmospheres unlike anything experienced on the Vineyard before. Friends and family together on towels, under umbrellas, or on folding chairs will be spaced differently. Dozens gathered to enjoy a bonfire or clambake will be the stuff of last summer’s memories. And forget the pale silhouette of your sunglasses: Facemask tan lines are going to be the new reality. Volleyball on the sand? That’s just not going to happen. 

As Oak Bluffs selectman Gail Barmakian put it, it’s fine to “run, swim, surf,” but “but no congregating.”

The novel coronavirus has not quite become the shark in “Jaws,” but themes from that film might be at play. The tourist-dependent economy of the Vineyard has certainly struggled to ramp up after being menaced by something unseen from Mother Nature. While restrictions on hotels and restaurants are still in place, the draw of beaches could help to jump-start the season and get folks out of the doldrums of their homes. 

Several Vineyard towns, notably the down-Island ones, haven’t been game to articulate how to get people onto the beaches safely, and instead have waited for Gov. Charlie Baker’s office to hand down beach guidelines. Those guidelines came Tuesday

Brian Packish, chair of the Oak Bluffs selectmen, was underwhelmed by the guidelines, and described them as “about as clear as a glass of mud.”

The guidelines, which in many places rehash previously issued guidelines, call for anyone over the age of 2 years old to wear a mask if they can’t maintain a distance of six feet from other people. A minimum distance of 12 feet is recommended for blanket and towel areas on beaches. They forbid groups of more than 10 people. Games and sports such as “volleyball, Kan Jam, spikeball, football, soccer, Kadima, and bocce” are prohibited. 

“Parking lots, people entering the beach, or other factors should be managed, if necessary, to limit beach capacity to accommodate adequate social distancing based on an assessment by the beach manager,” the guidelines state. 

West Tisbury had a few beach regulations in place before the Baker administration guidelines were announced. Among them, the town sought to regulate the path to Lambert’s Cove from early May.

At Lambert’s Cove Beach, “people are required to wear a mask and remain single-file while on the path,” the town rule states. “On the beach, a mask is required if the six-feet social-distancing requirement cannot be maintained.” 

Tuesday afternoon, several people walking that path followed the rules the town set forth. However, one group of three young men walked shoulder to shoulder instead of single-file while heading out to the beach, and none wore masks. West Tisbury health agent Omar Johnson, who later arrived at the beach to spot-monitor, said the place has been busy on weekends. He noted the parking spaces have been reduced by 50 percent. And while notices were posted along the path reminding folks to social distance, Johnson said, a large sign will be installed shortly at the head of the path to make that message more visible. 

“All of our beaches, including Norton Point, are currently open to pedestrians,” Trustees of the Reservations stewardship manager Chris Kennedy said. He added that overland vehicles are permitted back on certain beaches too. “The Trustees follows the state guidelines requiring all our visitors to wear masks when in parking lots, going to and from the beach, and when social distancing at six feet cannot be maintained,” Sam Hart, Trustees of the Reservations director for Nantucket and the Vineyard said.

Tisbury DPW director Kirk Metell said Tisbury has no signage up yet, and “no rules in place yet.”

He said he hoped to hash out some proposals with Tisbury health agent Maura Valley to bring to the board of health and the board of selectmen, ahead of the lifeguards’ arrival on Memorial Day. That hasn’t happened yet. But Metell later said a Porta Potty and hand-sanitizing station will be placed at Tashmoo Beach. 

“We’re going to make our rules based on what the governor says,” Edgartown town administrator James Hagerty said ahead of Baker’s announcement. Following it, he said he expected the town would follow those guidelines. 

Chilmark selectman Bill Rossi described pandemic beach rules as “a fluid situation.”

Much like West Tisbury, he said, he expects the town to “scale back capacity in terms of cars and capacity to some degree.” That transpired with a 50 percent reduction in beach parking spaces. 

Beach committee chair Clarissa Allen told Chilmark selectmen Tuesday night that officials are wondering whether further actions should be taken at the beaches to create social distancing. Allen said the idea of alternating days based on license plate numbers or parking stickers is being weighed.

Dukes County has yet to adopt rules for its beaches, including State Beach. 

In late April, county manager Martina Thornton pitched Department of Conservation and Recreation rules for its beach properties.

Those rules permitted “passive recreational activities that only involve transitory movement — walking, jogging, running, etc. And for solitary beach fishing.”

They prohibited “sitting, sunbathing, and other stationary recreational activities,” along with athletic and other recreational activities “that bring participants into close physical contact.” 

The commissioners were undecided on what rules to impose, and have not implemented any. 

Commissioner ChristineTodd advocated for uniform regulations for all Vineyard beaches.

“It’s insane to expect our community to adhere to [different] rules on every beach,” she said.

 

Updated to add comment from Sam Hart. — Ed.

66 COMMENTS

  1. This will Finally hopefully put the finale nail in the County’s Coffin”! They are useless!
    ………………………………………………………………………………………………….
    Dukes County has yet to adopt rules for its beaches, including State Beach.
    In late April, county manager Martina Thornton pitched Department of Conservation and Recreation rules for its beach properties.
    Those rules permitted “passive recreational activities that only involve transitory movement — walking, jogging, running, etc. And for solitary beach fishing.”

  2. (Cont) This is more than insane!
    ****************************************************
    Those rules permitted “passive recreational activities that only involve transitory movement — walking, jogging, running, etc. And for solitary beach fishing.”
    They prohibited “sitting, sunbathing, and other stationary recreational activities,” along with athletic and other recreational activities “that bring participants into close physical contact.”

    • Commissioner Christine Todd advocated for uniform regulations for all Vineyard beaches.
      “It’s insane to expect our community to adhere to [different] rules on every beach,” she said.
      She’s insane. This is the Vineyard and we already have an up island community that shuts their beaches to down island residents. We’ve never thought with one voice and this is not the time now.

    • Totally insane. The People should rise up and REVOLT!!!! Don’t mess with my BEACH!!! That’s my CHURCH!!!!

  3. Keep in mind these ‘guidelines’ are enforceable under State of Emergency law at both the state and local level should people display stupidity.

      • Hi BS, I’d just like to remind you that it only matters, totally and completely, how the County thinks the guidelines can be enforced. Kind of like asking the public how the police department thinks they’re going to enforce x/y/z bylaw. Makes for chatter, but is meaningless.

        • These are not laws or regulations or anything other than guidelines. If you are afraid of the virus by all means stay home. I’m not responsible for your health. You are.

  4. Only a fool would wear a face mask on the beach! Keep plenty of space between you and other beach goers. Draw a circle around your group or your beach towel if you have to. But for goodness sake use common sense and enjoy the beach!

  5. Wait a minute. Transitory? No sitting? What about the ADA? People in wheelchairs, people with disabilities, some cannot move about, some have to sit. Is this nonsense flying in the face of the ADA? If so, which will prevail? The ADA or a local ruling? Things are becoming quite murky to me.

    • augustawynd / anyone with a immune deficiency should be staying at home period, what are you thinking or are you

      • Teehump there are many healthy people with disabilities who have every right to visit the beach. The original comment mentioned nothing about people with immune deficiencies. Do you think that everyone who is concerned with accessibility and relies on ADA regulations to go about should stay home for the entire summer? Everyone needs fresh air. You are the one who sounds a bit like you’re not thinking.

  6. i am trying to understand. what i read is that basically the rules are not changed. we can walk or run on the beach, which we’ve always been able to do. we can put a towel or blanket down on the sand, but we can’t sit or lie on it. no need for buckets and shovels, beach toys, games or chairs because we all have to keep mobile. doesn’t sound like a “day at the beach” for me, although, don’t get me wrong.. i still appreciate the sounds and smells of the ocean and grateful to live where i do. i just feel like i’m missing something in the statement that “vineyard beaches open for memorial day”.

  7. Why is there a 12 foot minimum distance suggested on the beach.m? Does the virus travel further over sand? Just let people live their lives. Protect yourself and leave me alone.

    • Jake, they dont want to leave you alone. They love the power the think they have. All of this strengthens Government control over people and they love it. A small part of them dont want the virus to go away so that they can continue barking orders.

      • Leftists are using this crisis to infringe constitutional rights but law suits are arising everywhere and at least two states supreme courts have already struck down orders of their governors.

        • I know, right? Before you know it, these leftists will be making a woman’s uterus their business. So glad the pro-life party cares so much about our at-risk loved ones, with so much personal responsibility toward them. Bye-bye, Gramma and Grampa. No beach for you. Stay shut away, where you belong.

      • Which small part would that be, Andrew? The part that barks about praying for a president whose inaction is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, while his cult followers place bets on how many dead bodies we’ll have from this plague?

        • Plague? Quite different actually.

          Plague is a disease that affects humans and other mammals. It is caused by the bacterium, Yersinia pestis. Humans usually get plague after being bitten by a rodent flea that is carrying the plague bacterium or by handling an animal infected with plague.

          The terms the plague or just plague (without the or a) refer to an infectious disease caused by a bacterium spread from rats to humans by means of flea bites.

          So, what do the coronavirus and the plague have in common? They both are infectious diseases that spread to humans from certain animals (that’s called zoonotic). However, COVID-19 is caused by a virus—essentially a tiny bit of nucleic acid and protein that needs a living host—whereas the plague is caused by bacteria, which are single-celled organisms. Further, while antibiotics work on bacteria, they do not work on viruses.

          Hope this helps :-^

          • A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, barrel.
            “The proverb ‘A little knowledge is a dangerous thing’ expresses the idea that a small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are, which can lead to mistakes being made.”

            You, of course, are mistaken when you misread, misunderstand, and misinterpret how the word, “plague” was correctly used in the context with which I used it. I have provided a Merriam Webster page to help expand your sorely limited knowledge of the word. You will take note that the word can also be a verb and applied to people who pester and persistently annoy.

            f plague (Entry 1 of 2)
            1a : a disastrous evil or affliction : CALAMITY
            b : a destructively numerous influx or multiplication of a noxious animal : INFESTATION
            a plague of locusts
            2a : an epidemic disease causing a high rate of mortality : PESTILENCE
            b : a virulent contagious febrile disease that is caused by a bacterium (Yersinia pestis) and that occurs in bubonic, pneumonic, and septicemic forms
            — called also black death
            3a : a cause of irritation : NUISANCE
            b : a sudden unwelcome outbreak
            a plague of burglaries
            plague verb
            plagued; plaguing
            Definition of plague (Entry 2 of 2)
            transitive verb
            1 : to smite, infest, or afflict with or as if with disease, calamity, or natural evil
            2a : to cause worry or distress to : HAMPER, BURDEN
            b : to disturb or annoy persistently

          • Thanks Don,

            “Just to clarify the definition of the word ‘plague’ ”

            Is anything “clear” in these confusing times!

            I don’t use yourdictionary.com. Never heard of it. Looks good.
            Here is the definition from Merriam-Webster’s (they claim
            to be most trusted online dictionary). I hardly agree but,
            still use them:

            a virulent contagious febrile disease that is caused by a
            bacterium (Yersinia pestis) and that occurs in bubonic,
            pneumonic, and septicemic forms

            — called also black death

            This coronavirus is quite different from the plague.

          • Jackie,

            “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, barrel.”

            More “dangerous” might be crafting/drafting a response to a comment on a chat board just before 3 am! Yikes.

            Good luck.
            :-^

          • sunshine–you are correct about antibiotics. However, I think you may be confusing “the plague” which was so horrific it became known as a noun.
            Another example would be “the Holocaust” — that term refers to a specific event, as does “The plague”.
            However, any widespread catastrophe caused by living organisms ( we can debate as to whether viruses are “alive”) can be considered a plague, as Jackie pointed out. And while the fires in Paradise Ca. in 2018 was a holocaust by every definition, it was different than “the Holocaust”

        • Pish Posh I am not fooled. I feel you used the word plague the way I thought you used it, my dear!

          btw..Friends of ours had two pairs of twins twice. How many children is that?
          lol

          :-^

          • Jackie,

            One more between dump runs….

            “expresses the idea that a small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are, “

            I am glad you consider me an expert!

            :-^

          • It’s taken you 4 comments to pretend you weren’t wrong? Lol, barrel. You’re an expert in your own mind.

          • “It’s taken you 4 comments to pretend you weren’t wrong?”

            I never said I was an expert and am wrong much. We all are. I am not wrong in this case.

            Along with incomputable other ramblings, your “plague” comment shows your insecurity in my opinion. A more mature person would just have pointed out that possibly, I took your meaning the wrong way. Instead, your ever-present anger took hold even more stringently. This seems a recurring dilemma, unfortunately.
            Further, I would have admitted if I took your meaning the wrong way. But, as previously posted, I feel I did not.

          • Make that 5 comments. And despite your feelings, you’re still wrong. Not understanding word usage is a silly thing for you to get all worked up over, but whatever… Have a nice day.

          • “Jackie”,

            “..silly thing for you to get all worked up over,..”

            I’m not worked up about anything; I was simply stating the truth. 😇
            I was/am trying to calm you down. Look at your posts. 😡

            Enjoy your evening! I mean that. ☮️

            :-^

          • sunshine– not enough information to answer your twins question, because we do not know how many of your friends have had 2 pairs of twins twice.

          • Don,

            “sunshine– not enough information to answer your twins question, because we do not know how many of your friends have had 2 pairs of twins twice.”

            lol!! How correct you are. That is the right answer.

            Now, if I worded my query properly, I would’ve told you it was only one lady who had two pairs of twins twice. How many kids?

          • Don,
            I am plagued with the fact that you do fathom how I feel. I
            know you see that she already tried to explain this
            to me. And you saw that she said everything was ok. Now
            you reiterate what she said? To stir?

            My mind cannot be changed on this one. I feel Jackie was comparing
            this Coronavirus to the plague. As you should be aware, what
            she wrote can be read either way, understanding that the spelling can
            sometimes be wrong (no capital P). Even without “plague” being
            capitalized, she was still comparing the two. In my opinion.

            “…you may be confusing “the plague” which was so horrific it
            became known as a noun. “

            I am well aware of the fact that one word can have several meanings
            and used to enjoy and expand on that fact with my students. ☮️

            :-^

          • “ Don,
            I am plagued with the fact that you do fathom how I feel.”

            I corrected this with the right version but George did not Use it I totally understand that. What a pain for George. Should read:

            Don,
            I am plagued with the fact that you do not fathom how I feel.

      • “…they dont want to leave you alone. They love the power the think they have. All of this strengthens Government control over people and they love it.”~Andrew

        Andrew is projecting his beliefs, what he loves. If we learn nothing else from the Coronovirus, we have learned this: The “Christian” conservatives, party of the right-to-life, do not care about life. They care about power and control, even more than they care about money. They care far more about controling women and what her constitutional rights are concerning her own body, than the noise they make about the unborn.

        I’d like to believe that people will respect safe distancing everywhere in public, including being responsible at the beach, but the reason why there are rules put in place is because people are, at heart, selfish, in denial, and dumb. If the president doesn’t wear a mask when greeting elderly veterans, why shouldn’t monkey-see, monkey-do at the beach? How is congregating on a beach any different than congregating in church where people sit on top of each other? Or any different than congregating in Walmart? Or an outdoor restaurant? We’ve all see how responsible people are. Ergo, rules rule- to protect the welfare of all.

      • andrew– well,well, well — nice to see that you have decided to to come back into our little group.
        It’s really important to have someone tell us all what we, or the “others” think.
        it’s especially important now that the good lord has stricken poor mr limbaugh with cancer and he can’t tell us.
        But you Andrew, are my personal mental interpreter. I was confused and disoriented because for months you have not once told me what I think, or believe.
        So I have developed some of my own beliefs and thoughts.
        # 1 among those thoughts, is that I believe you owe me a thousand dollars, which I will donate to our hospital, or if you prefer, Planned Parenthood.
        In case you forgot :
        On this forum, you wrote:
        “Dondondon. You are always asking me to wager on things. You who politicize the virus and blame it on Trump and exaggerate it beyond proportion, I will now ask you to make a bet with me for one thousand dollars. How about 1000 people in the US die from Coronavirus, Small number since this is a pandemic. If we dont reach that threshold you pay me. You wont take that bet because you know its not gonna happen. As for Trump being a ”complete idiot” will you soon be concerned with Biden’s diminished mental capacity and cognitive decline.? I promise you the 1000 dollars if I lose. I will chase you on your non CO2 spewing bicycle and hand you the money.”

        I replied :
        “I somewhat feel my yearly challenge about climate change falls into the same category, as the effects of climate change potentially are going to kill millions, and could bring down our entire civilization.
        But, Andrew, I will take you up on your wager .
        Not because I want anyone to die, nor will I “hope” that number is reached.The course of this pandemic is entirely out of my control. I will take the risk to prove a point.
        As unfortunate as it is,my opinion is that 1,000 deaths in the U.S is a statistical certainty.I will publicly pledge that any money, if and when I get it from you will be donated to Planned parenthood.
        If i win, and you renege on your commitment, i will also make that public.
        If you win, you can do whatever you want with my hard earned money.
        there is no question that i will pay up”

        Now, I’m sure a good honest christian such as yourself would never break a promise, I’m sure it just slipped your mind, because as you have implied on this forum, a thousand dollars is chump change.
        James 5:12 ESV / 93
        But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation.
        And just to be kind, I will not even ask that you chase me on my “non CO2 spewing bicycle and hand {me”} the money.”
        You can simply send the check to me at po box 1855 V.H Ma 02568.
        Thanks, welcome back. The hospital needs the money.

        • Thank you for reposting Andrew’s disgusting “dead bodies” wager and your thoughtful response to it. At the time Andrew made this bet with you, several commenters objected to what he was doing, especially given how he claims to be a christian, one who has stated he believes Trump was the answer to evangelicals’ prayers. Instead of apologizing for what he could have dismissed as his poor judgement and stupid bet, Andrew dug his heels in and tried, in other threads, to pretend that the “bet” was metaphorical in nature and that we who objected, just didn’t understand. That of course was ridiculous. Andrew meant to make the wager and when it became clear that he’d lost the bet, AND that his chosen one had grossly mishandled and downplayed the pandemic for precious months, causing tens of thousands of needless deaths, he skulked off somewhere, never addressing his poor behavior to fellow commenters… and never paying up. And now he reappears as if we had forgotten. There are words for those who renege on their debts and wagers, and none of them are good.

        • Dondondon. You did not take me up on the wager in the time frame given and you know it. However I was wrong. In the last 3 months I have given substantially to various causes none of which you would support but always to people in need. I also unwillingly gave to PP in the spirit of the wager.

          • There was nothing in your proposal about a time frame.
            when you made the wager there were 22 deaths in the U.S
            when I saw it, and took you up on it, there were 38.

            However, the fact that you recognize you were wrong and publicly admit it, is a good thing. It is good for one’s character to be able to do that. I never expected you to pay up anyway.
            Good for you to donate to any charitable cause.
            And if in fact you gave even $10 to PP, I appreciate that.
            stay safe.

          • “If a man makes a vow to the LORD, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.” Number 30:3

          • Bulkington– I have been throwing the bible at Andrew for years. I think he is a “christian in name only”.
            He thinks the teachings and rules apply only when convenient for him (woman are subservient to men , homosexuality is an abomination, for example) but not when it is inconvenient for him (those who work on the sabbath shall be put to death, eating pork is an abomination , for example) And forget the immigration thing.
            No, He claims to be a christian.
            BUT;
            I was raised in the christian faith, I know Christians and ,.Bulkington, Andrew is no Christian.

    • Jake is right. If 6 foot distancing is fine in stores, why 12 feet at the beaches. This is so arbitrary, unless someone explains why “beaches are so dangerous.”

      • It really is about wind direction. If you are upwind of your nearest fellow beach buddy 2 feet would probably be safe, but if you are down wind 25 feet might not be enough. Keep a weather eye to windward.

  8. Some of you on here complained that people wanted to open the economy. Now that they are telling you how to behave at the beach you sing a different tune. Such hypocrisy. None is going to adhere to any of thess garbage guidlines. As far as you that have caronaphobia keep your butt home.

    • crayson.
      can you cite one example of someone commenting here to confirm your hypocrisy claim ?
      Just one would be fine.. you know– she said this, and then said that —
      Please — just one time to verify your claim– and then i will not be so quick to point out your obviously severe case of liberalophobia.
      But I will agree with you that the guidelines are somewhat arbitrary and not enforceable, or even adhereable on any practical level.

  9. At Wilfred’s Pond beach, a Landbank property designed for social distancing and with very few parking spaces, a swarm of NY and NJ vehicles arrived Friday late in the day and overwhelmed the parking lot, pulling into brush, cramming as many as possible, and a large group of people gathered – no face masks, no social distancing, no anything. The wind was very strong, we were forced to walk into the wind towards the entrance where they were gathered. We called the police, they sent an officer. We don’t know what happened. It was not what we expected.

  10. If you want to be safe at the beach, wear your mask or at the very least have it around your neck ready to be worn. Seriously.

  11. If Lamberts Cove Beach parking yesterday afternoon is any indication of what this summer is going to be like, aye mattie where in for a blow.

  12. I quit social media years ago because it was inundated with people who thought they were right but never gave a thought to opening their minds to the facts. They are good at talking but not listening . This comment section has unfortunately relegated itself unto the same cesspool of loud, yet, well I won’t go there. I wish them well and perhaps someday enlightenment.

    • And yet you use social media here at least 3x a week. And now you explain, on social media, why you quit using it years ago.

      • There are several types of Social Media, including:

        Bookmarking Sites
        Social news
        Media Sharing
        Microblogging
        Blog comments and forums
        Social Review Sites

        The MV Times provides us with a Community Online Forum:
        “An online forum is a site that lets users engage in conversations by posting and responding to community messages. A blog comment site is the same thing except being a little more focused. The comments are usually centered around the specific subject of the attached blog. Google has a popular blogging site aptly titled, Blogger. However, there are a seemingly endless number of blogging sites, particularly because so many of them are niche-based, unlike the universal appeal of general social media site”

  13. sunshine– twins are by definition a “pair” so 2 pair of twins consist of 4 people. As worded, since the woman pulled that task off twice, that would be 4 more kids, making a total of 8 .
    Think of scissors. A pair of scissors consist of 2 individual scissor.
    So if you went to the store and bought 2 pair of scissors, you would have 4 individual scissor. Then, if you misplaced them and went out at a later time and bought 2 more pair, and then found the originals, you would have 8 individual scissor.
    If you like playing with words, check out contronyms
    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/25-words-that-are-their-own-opposites?utm_source=pocket-newtab
    thanks for putting something light hearted in here, even if it is off topic.

    • I will check your link out tomorrow.

      Twins equal two
      A pair of twins equal four
      Two pairs of twins equal eight
      Two pairs of twins twice equals 16

      She was busy.

      :-^

  14. This is off-topic, but I hope the moderators will indulge me because it’s important in general, and also because it comes up so frequently with one commenter responding to my comments. I wanted to address the “mansplaining” that went on after I wrote the following:

    “Which small part would that be, Andrew? The part that barks about praying for a president whose inaction is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, while his cult followers place bets on how many dead bodies we’ll have from this plague?”

    A commenter entered the conversation for no reason other then to tell me he had decided I had used a word, plague, incorrectly (I hadn’t) and thought he’d give me a lecture on a subject that I already know more about than he does.

    Every woman understands how annoying it is to be plagued by mansplainers. Using phrases like, “my dear”, being picky about grammatical errors and typos while entirely ignoring the discussion subject, and worse, incorrectly “correcting” and lecturing a woman who does not need correction because she already knows exactly what she is talking about, is annoying. Mansplainers, at their best, are bores and pests. At their worst, they can lead to a job loss for a woman if she upsets the insecure ego of the splainer. Confronting a mansplainer for his inappropriate behavior on the internet is not so terrible, but it is no less unpleasant to have to deal with it. Even though mansplainers have no self-awareness of the reality of their behavior, it is a victimizing practice that should always be pointed out, if possible. I am pointing it out.

    Several times now, on several different subjects, Barrel has decided to search my comments, addressed to people other than him, looking for some error to correct or lecture me on. These mansplain-y, off-topic interruptions always end the same way. After projecting his own feelings and trying to insult me for anything, from what time I post, to calling me angry, excitable, insecure, and immature, he will passive/aggressively wish me well and “sincerely” mean it.

    Within this thread, after Don told Barrel he is indeed wrong and I used the word “plague” correctly, Barrell finally admits that yes, I used the-word-in-question properly– but, according to Barrell, I was unaware that I was using it properly and that my correct usage was a mere accident and not intentional. (!) And this is after I had posted a Merriam Webster dictionary page to point out all the different definitions of the word to help HIM see HIS error. Barrel believed Don, but he did not “feel” that I was smart enough to know how to use a word I know how to use, so he refused to believe I know what I know. I couldn’t make this up if I tried.

    Most men totally get that this behavior is wrong, but to those men who do not already know, here goes: Lecturing a woman on a subject about which she already knows more than you, is obnoxious. When you do it, you make a fool out of yourself and you also make the woman angry– and rightly so. I suspect that making me angry is why one commenter combs my comments for minutia to try to criticize, but he has not bargained for being made to look a fool. Women are allowed to get angry at obnoxious, pestering, mansplain-y behavior, and they should.

    So, now mansplainers know. When and if they again try to lecture me on something I already know, but they do not, I will again make them look as foolish as they are.

    Meanwhile, as of yesterday, this dreadful plague has killed 100,000 Americans… and our President went and played golf to mark this brutal milestone.

    • Jackie– you may be reading a little more into this than is warranted. While I often agree with you on most issues, and disagree with sunshine. on most issues, I do not see him being particularly rude to you, nor do I perceive him to be “mansplaining”. He was simply debating a point about the proper usage of a word, in a way that I perceive as socially acceptable.
      And, I don’t think he agreed with me any more than you. We have a complex language, and many words can be used in many ways.
      Even the word “mansplaining” is somewhat ambiguous and can be interpreted in many ways by many reasonable people.

      • Don, the privilege of being white and male allows you to be somewhat dismissive toward something real. Because you are not put in the position to put up with this, it does not mean that I have not been repeatedly put over a barrel by barrel– who even tried to distract from his own foolish error with a math problem. His argument was foolish to begin with, because it was wrong and now he knows it, but he still stands by his foolishness based on how he “feels”: that I do not know what I am talking about. He needs to feel superior. This instance is not the first time the mansplainer has tried to engage me, only to be off-topic and critical and condescending. Insecure men who feel threatened by smart women behave this way, as every smart woman will tell you. They do not behave that way with men, so you have not noticed it, and why would you look for it, anyway? I have no problem with being condescending toward foolishness. Foolishness deserves it. But to be condescending toward smart women purely to assert a superiority which even the insecure mansplainers do not feel, is real.
        I respect you and know you well enough to know that you will research “mansplaining” on your own, without needing to give you links. I appreciate your input and your opinions. Start with Rebecca Solnit’s, “Men Explain Things To Me”. White male privilege is real, and mansplaining is one way it manifests itself.

        On another note, I debated whether or not to let this drop, but decided it best to say something about another mansplainer on these pages— the one who belongs to a cult religion who tried to tell me what makes a person a Jew. But what I wanted to say has nothing to do with mansplaining. It is about dishonesty. A person who does not honor his word is unreliable and dishonest. When you make an ugly but serious wager on a serious matter, and you do it in public, and then run away and hide after you’ve lost your very public wager– only to come back with excuses as to what you did to supposedly honor your debt– you have an unreliable, dishonest excuse from a dishonest person.

        Andrew did not honor his word to you. What he did was give you unprovable and likely untrue excuses which you graciously accepted. He got you to believe his excuses while continuing to dishonor his word to you. I don’t care what he’s donated to, if anything, Andrew still owes you one thousand dollars so that you can donate that money to our hospital or to Planned Parenthood. He will continue to hold that debt to you, in front of everyone who reads this and in front of his god, and he will contintue to be the dishonorable person he is until he pays up.

        • Jackie — thanks for your reply– I agree on all points, as you articulate your positions well.
          As for Andrew– When I took that bet, I certainly did not expect that he would honor it when he lost.I have after all, known Andrew for many years, and know that he often says things that are not true. You are correct, he owes me that money, and I will not tell him it’s ok to not pay me.
          I can’t make him pay me, but as long as he refuses to honor his word, others here will know it, and think of him accordingly. His credibility and honor are obviously not worth what is essentially chump change to him. That alone says a lot about the character of the man.
          The fact that the money will go to our local hospital makes his refusal even more deplorable. I could better understand if he did not want to give it to me.
          The larger problem is that a significant portion of the population at large doesn’t care about people who lie, cheat, bully, commit adultery, spew racist xenophobic hate and otherwise undermine the basic mores of our society.
          Shame on them, and shame on Andrew.

        • “Jackie”,

          Yet you have no problem when Don puts on his “mainsplaining hat” when addressing other men in this forum? Goose/gander?!

          Mansplaining can be delivered to anyone. It seems convenient for you to have it both ways. Interesting.

          “In its original use, mansplaining differed from other forms of condescension in that it was said to be rooted in the assumption that a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a woman. However, it has come to be used more broadly, often applied when a man takes a condescending tone in an explanation to anyone, regardless of the age or gender of the intended recipients: a “man ‘splaining” can be delivered to anyone.

          Mansplaining, Merriam-Webster

          :-^

    • “Jackie”,

      I bow down to most all women. I always have and I always will. They deserve it. They are number one, in my mind. That’s how I was brought up and that’s how I will feel when I die. Forever.

      That said, I will never bow down to a woman or man who does not deserve it. Ever.

      “..to tell me he had decided I had used a word, plague, incorrectly…”

      Reading comprehension check. Please show me where I said this. I never said you used it incorrectly. I said there was a difference between the two.

      I do not take kindly to people who bully, or, try to. In my prior atmosphere, bullying was prevalent. I was instrumental in deterring some bullying. In my opinion, you TRY to bully in this forum.

      This is as far as I got with your post, which I am replying to: ”Using phrases like, ‘my dear’ “.

      I stopped right there, before finishing reading what you wrote, as I sometimes do with your postings. Just because I said I did not use the phrase “my dear” in the most positive way, it does not mean that the phrase was negative, either.

      Phrases and words can have zillions of meanings. I never told you how I really meant the phrase, “my dear”. Yet, you turn it into your own façade. And even if I did call you, “my dear”, in a negative manner, deal with it. That is not bullying. You are conveniently trying to turn this into something which it is not. And you know that full well. There is a name for this, as well.

      I strongly suggest you reread some of your posts in this forum before you keep throwing stones at others.

      :-^

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