Speak out against federal use of force


To the Editor:

I have been reading with great alarm and dismay about the “Homeland Security” secret police who have been deployed by the Trump administration to quell the weeks-long, largely peaceful protests in Portland, Ore. —  protests calling attention to police violence and brutality, and demanding an end to the disproportionate questioning, abuse and killing of unarmed and nonviolent black and brown citizens in countless incidents that have gone unpunished and unstopped for decades. These federal forces, who wear no insignia or identifying badges and who drive unmarked cars and trucks, have been fomenting violence, seizing protestors on the streets, forcing them into unmarked vans with no probable cause or charges, and detaining them at will at undisclosed locations. Further, this agitation has resulted in the shooting of one protester, Donavan La Bella, critically injuring him. Both the mayor of Portland and the governor of Oregon have declined the presence of these federal forces, and have repeatedly called for their departure, noting they are fueling anger and causing violence in otherwise peaceful protests that were well contained for more than six weeks.

“Today Portland, tomorrow all America” is the promise of the Trump administration, which has deployed these forces, and plans to send them anywhere and everywhere that protests occur. This antidemocratic strategy should be one that has all citizens alarmed, paying close attention, and aggressively opposing it. Where is the national outcry to call out the unlawfully escalated violence and detention of protestors by federal “law enforcement” agencies?

I want to strongly suggest that we should all urge our own Massachusetts governor, Charlie Baker, and our attorney general, Maura Healy (in fact, ALL governors and attorneys general of other states), to join the governor and attorney general of Oregon to file suit against: the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and the Federal Protection Service. We need to stand against these acts that run contrary to our democratic process and our constitutional right to peacefully protest.

We cannot let the city of Portland or the state of Oregon stand alone against this outrage. If it can happen there, it can happen here — at the next protest. This is the insidious path toward a fascist police state that an unwitting or complacent populace can be led onto, if not watchful. As citizens of a democratic republic, we must safeguard our rights and stop this in its tracks. As John Lewis advocated, we must: “Stand up, speak up, speak out, and do something!” 

Silence = inaction = indifference = complicity.

Ann Rosenkranz
Vineyard Haven



  1. Do U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents wear Brown Shirts?
    Does their budget cover the cost of name tags or do the agents have to supply their own?

  2. If the Homeland Security agents had been present in St. Louis to fend off the BLM mob, retired Police Chief David Dorn would be alive. Need I go to enumerate the list of the dead in the wake of the BLM riots across the nation? The destroyed lives and livelihoods?

      • AG Eric Holder’s DOJ investigated the death of Michael Brown and determined it was a justified shooting. He attacked the officer and died as a result.

          • It’s not ancient history in the sense that the false narrative of Hands Up, Don’t Shoot was one of the fundamental lies upon which BLM was founded.

        • Paul, I was responding to ajay. Your comment was factual. Hands Up, Don’t Shoot, was a lie amplified and repeated again and again by the media and the elites for many months. It was a lie, by the way, for which the person who told it to the police (the accomplice of Michael Brown) was never prosecuted, despite that lie inciting the burning of Furgeson and ruin of many lives and livelihoods.

      • So your position is that the death and destruction waged by the BLM mobs (which continues) is not to be condemned?

          • What are the facts about the George Floyd murder?
            Murder by a boy in blue?
            (boy = adolescent brain)

            It is really hard to defend cop behaviour this month.
            I know , I know, it is just a few bad apples in the barrel.
            Due to their work environment cops know just who the bad apples are.
            It is considered bad taste to discuss another officers professional behaviour.

            How long did it take to get Craig Edwards out of the EPD barrel?
            You know Craig the guy who knows where to put a shell casing for maximum effect.
            Just the facts sir.
            Cops don’t generally turn rotten, they bring their rot with them to the Police Academy.

  3. There is a silence here, a deception
    summer sounds on a quiet street
    with yards and flower gardens
    vegetables and bicycles
    quieter than usual
    except for the sounds of summer machinery
    mowers and saws and hammers and power washers
    still a silence
    that masks the violence, the insidious violence
    of unnamed, unidentified armed paramilitary forces in our streets
    not this street but our streets
    how is this okay. how is this okay
    in anyone’s eyes or anyone’s hearts (if they have one)
    how is this okay. how is this okay
    that we have a man and his minions
    his cowardly sycophants
    sending unnamed and unaccountable forces
    onto our streets.
    our streets and our people
    our people—demonized by a demon…

    07-22-20 dog days of summer

  4. Have you seen videos of what Portland has become. I urge you to look up you tube videos–not doctored, of the city, the boarding up, the graffiti, the locked down shops and department stores. Take a ride through Portland by video and then tell me you are outraged that Homeland Security is involved with Peaceful Protestors. I am sure there are many peaceful protestors but the damage done to Portland is manifest and needs Federal attention. Please go look.

    • Yes the citizens of Portland are damn mad about how this country is policed.
      They are physically demonstrating against White cops jamming Black necks into the pavement for eight minutes and forty-nine seconds, not surprisingly, death resulting.

      Portlanders do not want Trump’s Brown Shirts in their city any more than the Island wants them.

      Trump is losing votes by deploying his ‘Brown Shirts’.
      He will have to deploy his ‘Brown Shirts’ in polling places throughout the land to insure his victory in November.

    • Not only that we have seen the video of the cop who was fired and then charged with murder in Minneapolis.
      We the People will continue to demonstrate violently until the police attitude toward Blacks changes.
      Do you have some kind of problem with that attitude?

    • Andrew, the problem with comments like ajay’s is that people like him never have to live with the consequences of the dangerous positions they hold dear. They have the luxury to signal their moral superiority from the comfort and safety of a place that is unlike anywhere in the country. I would challenge any of them to go live in a communtiy where the conseqences of leftist democrats make life in these places unbearable.

      • Seaman, my professional life has placed me in grittiest parts of our major cities.
        I have seen the profiling, I have seen the poverty, the disproportionate poverty of Black people.
        What is the root cause of the disproportionate poverty of Black people?
        Systemic racism?
        What else can there be?

        • How about fatherless families? How about the ravaging consequences of democrat policies, primarily the welfare state? How about a shortage of personal responsibility? But at least you ask the question. I appreciate that. Unlike some leftists, your mind is not completely closed. Here are two important facts: Before the advent of the welfare state, black Americans were making the fastest gains into the middle class. Controlling for fatherless homes, the incarceration rate for young black men and young white men all but disappears. Those two realities should tell us something very important.

          • Seaman. They dont want to know the truth about 71 percent fatherless homes and the consequences. They want all the incarceration to be racist in nature and not due to crime. They dont want to know the poverty outcome from fatherless homes or the crime rate. They dont want to know the statistics about police action on African-Americans armed or unarmed. Of the millions of transactions police in this country have on blacks and whites every year, only a minuscule percentage is careless and unjustified. And even if it is true they dont want it to be true. ”their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the truth for a lie.”

          • Link, please, Andrew, and cite your sources (that you admit you don’t trust). 71% of what exactly is “fatherless homes”? Is that 71% of Portland Oregon doesn’t believe in marriage? What are you talking about and where do you get your blather from? What’s your idea of “miniscule” if profiling and brutality happens to Black people, and not to white? What amount of profiling and police brutality against Black people is okay with white evangelist cult members or racists? Why do you quote scripture in some posts but lie, use racist excuses for brutality, and provide no evidence of what the hell you are talking about in the same comment? Doesn’t that cancel out any pretense at being christian? You also say (lie) that dems want the coronavirus to continue until Biden is elected and then it won’t be a big deal anymore. Really, Andrew, where are your sources for these lies?

          • Andrew, economics is the biggest indicator of fatherless homes, not skin color.
            Skin color is the biggest indicator of economic status.
            Why is that?
            What else can it be?

    • Andrew– you often tallk about the media blowing things out of proportion.
      Your recent comment to me in which you think we should compare the entire unaffected population of the U.S to the death rate of people who have actually had it is statistically abhorant .
      then, you go on a rant about Portland Or.
      So let me give some statistics here..
      The population of Portland OR. in 2018 was 653,115
      In this recent round of protest, more than 335 people have been arrested– but it’s hard to tell exactly what the actual number is, because the federal storm troopers are not talking, let alone giving a reason for the ‘detainment”
      But let’s just look at the percentages– 653,115 citizens in portalnd –335 arrest — that’s .000513 of portland’s citizens have been arrested.
      But since you like to compare to a larger population, let’s look at the Oregon population–
      4,218,000 and compare it against the arrest in the current ‘crisis”
      So, for the state as a whole — 4,218,000 people —-335 arrest, that’s .00007942 of the population has been arrested for protesting over the last few months .
      Do you think this is an indicator that oregonians are socialist or terrorist or somethin like that ?
      You know, it’s hard to get facts about how many people are working closely with trump that have been arrested , but his entire staff is about 2,000. So if we extrapolate and compare the arrest rate of the average oregonian to the average arrest rate of the average presidential employee, ( .00007942 * 2000) , we get .0159.
      What does that mean ? That means that if the employees of trump (as president) were as lawless as the average oregonian associated with these protest, the trump administration shoud have about 1 arrest every eigt years.
      Hmmm- I guess you could argue, since you don’t post any proof, that not a single person working for trump has been arrested. You could square that with the idea that trump is better than jesus ( you obviously think that ) , and the idiots that think trump is better than jesus will agree with you.

      • dondondon. You are always learning and never coming to the knowledge of truth. If you walked the streets of Portland you wouldnt give a damn about your metrics. The place is a war zone. If you arrested everyone who did a crime your numbers would be significantly larger. You know the cops are not arresting. Crime is going up all over the country. Why spew such nonsense? No one is better than Jesus. He was without sin.

        • Unprepared and locally uninvited troops with guns and tear gas escalated and prolonged the tensions in Portland, which had been dying down before the fascist Trump goons decided to grandstand a “law and order“ tactic. American voters can all feel the results of the bungled COVID handling, which will hand the presidency to Biden on a silver platter. These make-it-worse trump goons make no sense in law enforcement, but they make lots of sense as a campaign tactic for a crumbling Trump base who see what a pathetic failure this conman has been.

  5. Certainly not a fan of violence in any arena, but I’ll play the chicken-or-the-egg actions/consequences game with you…Seaman – are you aware of what has led up to these mostly-peaceful but occasionally violent (again I do not condone) protests ??? Are you unable to acknowledge the disproportionate killings of African Americans at the hands of law-enforcement (by the FEW bad eggs) ? The need to take a morally superior stance is absolutely the ethical choice. To do otherwise is to be complicit (or worse). As i suspect a Caucasian, do you not enjoy the luxury of your silence ?

    • “Are you unable to acknowledge the disproportionate killings of African Americans at the hands of law-enforcement.” Your words. What data do you use for this? The actual data is completely the opposite.

      • Seman you seemed very well versed in this subject.
        How many Blacks were killed by police?
        In deaths per thousand?
        Do you have the actual data?

      • seaman — you say “Are you unable to acknowledge the disproportionate killings of African Americans at the hands of law enforcement.” Your words. What data do you use for this? The actual data is completely the opposite.”

        care to post something backing up that assertion, or are you going to follow Andrew’s lead and just say it and criticize the liberals for not being able or willing to chase down a lie ? You and Andrew and your ilk would never admit you were wrong no matter how many factual posts I could put up. Such is the power of cognitive dissonance and willful ignorance.

    • Gutsy, your post had some important factual errors. Portland, Oregon, for example has been under a literal and violent seige for about 50 days. The violence and destruction of property across the country are not the exceptions, but rather the rule. The media have merely halted the wall to wall coverage because because it was not serving the narrative. When CNN reporters stand in front of burning buildings, claiming that the protests were peaceful, one’s eyes tell a different story. The cliche of “luxury of silence” is utter nonsense, but the BLM engine is driven by slogans and falsehoods, a standard tactic used by Marxist organizers. Even their moniker, a raised clenched fist, is a knock off of the Soviet Communist Party’s logo. Might I remind you that symbol along with the sickle and hammer caused the deaths of tens of millions of innocents.

      • Black profiling across the country is not the exception, but rather the rule.
        Blacks are sick and tired of it.
        They are no standing up for their rights, only 155 years after they were freed.

      • Seaman, where do you put the MV Times on the lie scale?
        The Vineyard Gazette 23%, Conservative newspapers tend to be more truthful?

      • Under the circumstances do the majority of Portland citizens want to have Federal troops on their streets?
        If they did it seems that they would have elected a Republican, or at least a RINO, for Mayor and Governor.
        They did not.
        In the May 19 nonpartisan mayoral primary the incumbent Democratic got 49% of the vote, a Democratic-Socialist 24% and the Republican candidate 5%.
        The people of Portland have spoken loud and clear.
        Can you hear them?

  6. seaman, good comment about the murdered Ret Police Chief “David Dorn!
    In my personal opinion it seems people are definitely more concerned about the police supposedly super murdering blacks than them killing each other in their cities in astonishing record numbers.
    They are certainly destroying lives and buisness in their own places. So sad, confusing and troubling.
    I think BLM and their white supporters should rethink their present objectives and the way they are expressing them!

  7. What is so sad and confusing is what happened to George Floyd.
    Americans are damn mad about it.
    Americans are going to change it.
    Rebuilding always involves some destruction.
    Our policing system is broken as shown in 8 minutes and 49 seconds in Minneapolis.
    It needs to be torn down and rebuilt.
    The knees must be removed from Black necks.

    • ajay,
      Americans are damn mad about it. (Correct)
      Americans are going to change it. (Correct)
      Rebuilding always involves some destruction. (You are not serious)

      Is what is happening in Chicago, Portland and all the other protests immediately turned into destructive and dangerous riots is that your definition about “Rebuilding always involves some destruction”…?
      Has any of these failed actions stopped blacks from killing each other in all democrat cities and states in record numbers? Seems more little black children have been killed and wounded lately.
      Lets maybe start talking about other ways to repair or destroy things as you say things because the ways they are using now are definitely everything extremely deadly, worst and also is creating a young generation of petrified, troubled and is clearly negatively mentally effecting them. Never mind when their parents and other family members have to bury them.
      This goes also for all those who are in your thinking sinking boat.
      I wonder what “George Floyd” is thinking right about now?

      • “Rebuilding always involves some destruction. (You are not serious)”
        Very serious.
        Nazism had to be destroyed to rebuild Germany.
        Like Russia destroyed Communism.
        Like protesters had to destroy tea in Boston to build a great nation.
        Locally think of the rustic beach cottage shopped and dropped for a McMansion style “beachfront compound”.
        All construction involves at least some destruction.
        Any kind of change actually.

      • Have you ever remodeled a house?
        How much did you have to destroy to do it?
        Did you cut away and haul off the rotten parts, the parts you didn’t like.
        America needs to be remodeled.

  8. Using federal protection for federal property is not a bad thing. However, federal troops that indiscriminately and uninvited (by local police) using force on non-federal property to gas and beat the mayor and peaceful protesters is fascist and unconstitutional. Period. Trump is an easily manipulated racist conspiracy theorist (and imbecile) who is embraced by the fascist, racist, antisemitic, religious. white privilege cult who pray over him and are responsible for this fascist mindset. Imagine all the white evangelicals praying to get Trump elected so that he can do their dirty work (and ruin our nation of all that is good), and their god responds by sending us a plague. Be careful what you pray for, especially if you’re part of this cult!

  9. Just imagine the racist nonsense seaman and andrew would be spouting if President Obama had sent in Federal law enforcement in unmarked uniforms to break up the violent protestors at some of the Tea Party events? These federal goons aren’t enforcing laws or assisting actual law enforcement–they are tear gassing people like the mayor trying to defuse the situation! Watch the video, listen to the protestors like the moms who were out trying to protect people.

    • If Tea Party events looked like the BLM riots, with rioting, looting, killing, and all during a supposed lockdown because of a virus, I would be the first to beg Obama to send in troops and tanks.

    • I’m trying to imagine Obama giving an interview and bragging about his cognitive abilities by saying, “person, woman, man, camera, TV” and “you get extra points if you get it in order”. This is the depraved depth Republicans have sunk to.

      • Jackie, I am trying to imagine B. Hussein Obama condemning the violence and the looting and killings by the BLM mob, but he’s not done that. The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. would have been condemning it and begging for peace. But not the the Vineyard’s newest prince.

        • I’m too busy trying to imagine a comment from you that doesn’t express your racial, islamophobic anxiety.

        • I started reading (well, listening to) John Lewis’s book, Across That Bridge. One sentence really stirred up some thoughts. “Political parties are on the hunt to search and destroy each other, as though we were involved in some kind of enemy combat rather than the work of statesmanship.” If we can’t even move on from the most petty of tactics and criticisms — if we can’t agree to call presidents by their real names because the desire to inflame is stronger than the need for peace and solutions — how are we ever going to talk out the deeper issues? There is zero willingness to work together, and yet some wonder why the physical state of the country now mirrors the rhetoric. Peace doesn’t start at the point where everyone takes to the streets. It begins with how we communicate. What we say, as well as what we won’t say or hear, matters.

  10. So, racist idealogy excuses the unconstitutional use of force by the federal government. Good to know. These are people who think that government forcing white people to wear a mask is worth killing grandma. Go figure.

    • The National Center for Health Statistics said that in 2015, 77.3 percent of non-immigrant black births were illegitimate. The national non-immigrant average is 42 percent, and it was 30 percent for whites. (This came from a Washington Examiner report from 2017.) A few other more current reports cite the figures closer to 80 percent now for non-immigrant black births.

      • Could anyone make a more racist post? Also, do racist right to lifers consider any birth “illegitimate”? Do Black lives not matter as much to racists? According this this kind of racist gibberish, the Island sure produces a lot of white illegitimate people. Do racists want to force loveless shot gun weddings while carrying on about same sex marriages? Your posts are ridiculous, seamon.

        • Jackie, you asked for the statistics and sources of black, fatherless families. I gave them to you. There is nothing “racist” about racial analysis, which you wanted to see. You can watch for yourself on YouTube as prominent black writers such as Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens speak about it all the time. So now we are in agreement that nearly 80 percent of children born to non-immigrant black women in the USA have no fathers in the home. The same social problems that ensue are the same ones that follow when white mothers give birth with no father is in the home. As I mentioned earlier, the incarceration rate among young black and white men almost disappears when controlled for single motherhood. This is not new news. But your echo chamber drowns out this very clear reality.

          • Seaman,

            “Jackie, you asked for the statistics and sources of black, fatherless families. I gave them to you.”

            No, you did not. You posted a stat that represents whether parents were married at the time their babies were born. Nothing more. This does not tell us if those parents are still together or, if they’re not, whether these fathers are in their kids’ lives. How are unmarried and fatherless the same thing? Look at the countless white couples who are divorced. Plenty of white kids grow up without dads who live in their primary homes. That doesn’t mean they’ve lost contact. Same goes for any family or race. This is far more complex than you are making it out to be.

      • Illegitimate is a cruel label to put on an innocent baby, seaman. Doing so sounds like poor moral character to me. It’s not a matter of arguing dictionary definitions, either. We all know that term is loaded with social judgment. That’s why it’s coming up at all.

        Being married doesn’t mean someone is faithful, stable, or responsible. Just like remaining unmarried is not an invitation for you to degrade. How many of those married fathers are cheating on their wives? Or prone to spousal abuse? Or ignoring their kids? A lot. Same goes for women. It’s not a simple matter of race or gender or some stat.

        Every time I have been approached by a man, especially on MV, he is married and has children. You have no idea how many do not respect their families, yet I’m sure these men are included in all of the “good” stats. Point being, if a marriage is just a piece of paper to some, should you be using it to determine superiority?

        • Also, seaman, I looked up the National Center for Health Statistics to see if their wording is the same as yours. Unless we came across different search results, they use the term unmarried. Did you intentionally change it to illegitimate to be inflammatory and archaic? Again, you can argue they mean the same thing, but illegitimate has a history.

          • The word “illigitimate” comes from the newspaper report I cited. It’s distinction without a difference, though I understand your sensitivity to the word.

          • So many White professional women have chosen to have a child with no man around the house.
            Do you condemn their decisions?
            So many White women with children decide that their kid’s dad is a jerk and throw him out.
            Do you condemn their behaviour?
            Are White people basically bad?

        • Aquinnah. Yes there are dysfunctional marriages but would you not agree that fatherless children at those rates are going to cause all kinds of problems. Dont reject a statistic because it is not universally valid. Dont make judgments due to exceptions to the rule. Wouldnt you agree?

          • 50% of marriages end in divorce.
            Are the children of the marriages illegitimate?
            How about fatherless?
            Are you fatherless?

      • Seaman why is it so important to you that parents of children be ‘married’?
        Currently 50% of US marriages end in divorce.
        How do you define illegitimate?
        Parents not married at birth?
        Parents not married at Conception?
        Parents not married one year after birth?
        A parent who does not know the name of her egg or sperm donor?
        A transman married to a biological male?

      • seaman — why do you think that if a birth is “illigitimate” there is no father in the house? plenty of people , both black, white, mixed, don’t bother to get married, but may still reside in the same house– also, you ignore the likelyhood that a woman might have a different partner down the road.
        So let me point out 2 things–
        !) black men serve longer prison sentances for similar crimes than whites.
        2) if abortion was more available and affordable many women of color would likely use that option rather than have a “fatherless” unwanted child.
        But guess who opposes easy access to abortion, disparages single moms, and want’s to cut programs to help those single moms provide food and education for their children ?

    • “Any political organization or party that has ever held a public position that supported slavery or the Confederacy shall either change its name or barred from participation in the House.” Surely, Jackie you would be in favor of this proposal, which was brought up on the House floor.

      • You see, Seaman, the problem with racist and fascist solutions to government is the assumption among the mind controlled is that they know what they don’t know.

        • I do support it. It would require the Democrat Party to face its racist past and present and own its history, and cancel its very name.

      • seaman– let’s be clear- the vote on this one was 305 for, 113 against. All democrats and 72 republicans stood for what was right. That was for the removal of the bust of the fifth chief justice of the United States and Confederate statues from public display in the U.S. Capitol.
        Then a republican rep proposed a ridiculous pile of crapola , which you quote.
        You distort reality and imply that Nancy Pelosi actually proposed this stupid resolution.
        The truth is that it was, in fact, GOP Rep. Louie Gohmert that introduced a resolution to ban the Democratic Party. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1286380684710481921
        I will give you some slack, and not call you a liar, because you are likely so drunk on the republican kool aid you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
        Perhaps after the election of Joe Biden, you will take a few weeks to get off the sauce, recover from your hangover, and rejoin civil society.

        EXCUSE me for pointing out facts.

        • Don, Rep. Gohmert’s resolution – “Any political organization or party that has ever held a public position that supported slavery or the Confederacy shall either change its name or barred from participation in the House.” – is perfectly consistent with the rhetoric I read all the time on these pages. If it’s our moral imperative to strip from the public square the images of those people who sided with slavery, should not the name of the very political party that sided with slavery also be banished from the public square? And certainly from the halls of government? Should not the name of that political party which fought on the battlefield and in the House of Representatives and Senate to preserve and expand slavery be cancelled along with all the other symbols? Should not the name of that political party that crafted the Jim Crow laws and used the KKK as its own paramilitary arm to torture, lynch and torment be erased? If the history of the people who stood for this must be banished, tell me, why not the name of the political party that was behind it?

          • What percentage of Democrats, in 1865, supported Slavery?
            In 1865 how many Republicans advocated for returning slaves to Africa whose families had been been in America for over a hundred years.
            I heard something about a guy named Lincoln, do you know of him?

  11. Hey, editors! Are you going to allow your platform to be used as a soapbox by these racist trolls? They should be banned.

    • Did I name call? Did I slur anyone by calling them a racist or a bigot or a fascist? I did not, though such slurs have been aimed at me for simply citing data. Did I call for violence or defend violence or condone violence, as many have in this forum? I have not. Your suggestion to the editors of the MV Times precisely defines the perniciousness of the left. All you know is to silence that which you want quiet. With the delete button or a club or a thrown bottle or a Molotov cocktail.

      • Isn’t there someone in your life who can help you understand why and how you are promoting systemic racism with your racism-filled comments? If you don’t like the label “racist”, how does “suffering from racial anxiety” sit with you? Still, you have to know, people who promote racist ideas are racist even when they don’t call someone names. Also, look up the word “slur”– as if “racist” is somehow ethnic. Where do they grow people like you?

  12. Honestly, I can no longer distinguish one racist rant from another in these threads anymore. They’re all sort of blending into one white, christian, mostly male (but not entirely), supriority complex of supremely ugly, racist ignorance. Whether they (and there are several) are spouting about their religion that they hypocritically preach, or illigitimate babies, or “Black on Black” crime, or looking for a Black celebrity or author that won’t make them sound so racist, or ridiculously quoting their bible, or whining that everybody is so mean for noticing they are racist fascists, or denying the reality of systemic racism, or their inability to say Black Lives Matter without saying all lives matter— it’s all one big, fat, racist rant now. I do think these comments absolutely should be allowed so that we know what the community has to deal with. It’s important also to call out the comments as racist and fascist as they appear, and I am grateful to others, particualrly Aquinnah and Don, who have far more patience than I to explain why these comments are so racist.

    This newspaper did stop allowing climate change denying posts, and I’ve often thought the same high standard should hold for covid-19 deniers and minimizers and systemic racism deniers. But now that I see it’s mostly the same people who promote these areas untruths about the climate, about covid and about BLM, all damaging a community and a nation and a world. I think it’s important that they do have their say–so that their lies can be exposed. We have liars who can’t stop lying on here who object to being “shamed” and “humiliated”, without understanding that they bring on their own shame with their racist views that decent people will never accept. They complain bitterly of being disparaged when they’ve disparaged themselves with their ugly views.

    • My Lord, Jackie, when BLM takes over as did Bolsheviks, you will have no shortage of employment opportunities.

      • When BLM takes over Black lives will matter.
        1865 freed from slavery.
        1965 freed from systemic segregation.
        2025 freed from racism.
        I am being optimistic.

  13. “An ad hominem argument is often a personal attack on someone’s character or motive rather than an attempt to address the actual issue at hand.” – The MV Times comment section is broken…

    • Exactly right!! Thank you for comment and explanation I never really knew definition of ad hominem now I do. Good luck having any success other than ad hominem results on comment page, thoughtful exchange of facts and ideas is sadly beyond many Americans cognitive ability.

    • It is macho police departments that are broken.
      Minneapolis comes to mind.
      I am guessing that they still have a few bad apples in their barrel.
      Does Edgartown now pass the sniff test?

    • Not sure who you are speaking about, Paul, but pointing out untruths and misleading information posted with the purpose to promote lies about protesters, COVID, or BLM, makes the person saying such things willfully dishonest… a liar, to be blunt. It is not ad hominem for a community to be informed of who the liars are, since they spread lies. The same is true of the racists who spread their racist views with skewed, racist dishonesty. Good people always want to know who among them are promoting racism and lies.

  14. Jackie. Aquinnah has self control and maturity. She always composes thoughtful responses and never attacks the person. I am sure I dont agree with her on many many issues but she is gracious, kind and humble. I sometimes fight back and in so doing she is more mature than me and I can learn from her. If you learned to control your bitterness and anger and stopped spewing tired old cliches you would have people listen to you and heed your words. In this Aquinnah is effective. Your constant harping and shaming people who you dont agree with you is no credit to you. You will continue to do so alas but you will convince no one. I now await your patented response. You are no more an expert on any of these subjects as I am. This is an effort by MVTimes to have lively commentary but it has degraded into a slugfest of vile invective by some, puerile trolling by others and foolish and shallow cliches by others again. The MVTimes ought to shut it down for everyones sake.

    • Feel better now, Andrew? If I’d behaved as you have on here, I’d want to shut the whole deal down, too. I can understand your sense of humiliation and shame that you whine about when you’re not telling me how angry I am, but you have only yourself to blame. You post lies, Andrew, making everything you say without value. I don’t dignify your promotion of racial stereotypes and anti Semitic tropes with an undeserved kindness, and I certainly don’t ever dignify lies, plagiarism, and a dishonorable character. There’s a reason why you complain so often that you feel shamed on here. Look to yourself, not to me for that.

    • Andrew– it doesn’t take much to be more mature than you.
      nice that you understand that.

  15. Seaman, you asked me about proof of systemic racism under another article, and I was a few days late in replying. Just want to make sure you see that comment because the information is very important. Again, I didn’t get to many aspects. But if you look at what has already been admitted to or confirmed, there really is no doubt this is real and widespread.


  16. These threads are becoming predictable. Jackie shrieks about privileged white males and the evils of Trump. Andrew huffs Breitbart bullet points. Don, possibly the most measured and statistically validated of the bunch, albeit unapologetically leftist, brings a semblance of sensibility. Ajay throws in devils advocate zings that can cut either way. Anyone living in Portland who can tell a first hand account if that’s actually going on?

    • Yes Wesley. I have been there very recently and now with Bakers new edict need a Covid test to re enter MA. You could watch this YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A29CMSvdUec. It is a war zone but Andrew is a liar and cant be believed on anything. 57 straight nights of rioting. Of course the liberals here will say the Federal troops provoked it.

      • Waht is the cause of the rioting?
        Has the ‘rioting’ increased since the arrival of Federal Troops?
        Does the Government of Portland want Federal Troops in their city.
        Does the Government of Oregon want Federal Troops in their cities?
        What are Oregon’s States Rights?

      • Now, Andrew, in the last month or so, you, an elderly man who says he’s in his late 70s, (older even than Trump!),
        have claimed to be in northern Wisconsin with groups of gun lovers all not wearing masks, and in some other far off state doing “clandestine work”. Now you say you’ve been in Portland? You’ve said you live in Florida so why are you talking about how to get back to Mass? Do they hand out James Bond stickers or Superhero capes on that evangelical cuckoo train? Why wouldn’t everyone believe your fantasy life? It’s not like you’ve ever lied on here.

        • And I did not even mention how you claimed you did not say anything racist against Chinese, Andrew, even though you called them dirty and that they spit on the streets. Nor did I bring up how you plagiarized from a Christian magazine to personally attack me. And of course, I don’t need to hammer home about the $1000 you STILL owe Don, after going back on your word and then pretending you never made a bet that was accepted properly, lol. Aren’t you glad I did not mention your litany of lies? Of course people trust you, Andrew. Why wouldn’t they?

      • Andrew, specifically, can you tell us the last time you were in Portland?
        How close to the protests were you?
        Were you there when the Federal Troops were there?
        Wath did you thihk of Federal Troop behaviour?
        Has the ‘rioting’ gone up or down since the arrival of the Federal Troops?
        Cause and effect?
        The chicken and the egg.

        Build a highway and people will use it.
        Bring in Federal Troops and the people will ‘riot’.
        That is what happened at Kent State.
        The National Guard single handedly ended the Vietnam War.
        Ending our National Raced War will take far more lives lost.
        So many people are scared ‘That They Will Be Replaced’.
        They will die and be replaced.

      • Based on the trail of locations you claim to have visited recently and the state you claim to live in (not MA) this claim strains credulity. Too bad you self-sabotage your credibility like this. Some of your points seem semi-valid, some seem like complete hogwash, but compared to Jackie’s histrionics, you come across as level-headed as George Will.

        • Wes, thanks to my “histrionics” (obviously female hysteria) now even someone like you can see that Andrew has zero credibility. And, thanks to me, you can say that in a measured tone. A liar who you don’t view as (term viewed as female) “shrill” is still a liar, Wes, and not at all comparable to the fairness and truth in reporting of respected journalists. In case you don’t realize, I am a commenter, not a journalist. Your wish for “level-headedness” in comments is irrelevant. Why truth isn’t more important to you than (female) “tone”, I can only guess. I use “histrionics” so that someone like you can see that someone like Andrew, also not a journalist, is not to be believed, because his views damage the community. Covid, for instance. (You might want to look at the adjectives you use when you don’t like the “tone” of a woman. They are sexist, whether or not you admit it.) Who has repeatedly called out Andrew’s phony travel tales and listed his many incidences of dishonesty, not just his wager weasel? But who shoots the messenger and congratulates a dishonest and dishonorable perpetrator for having a “tone” someone like you finds acceptable?

          • Wes, I read your comment too quickly and now see you referred to George Will, not the George of our own MV Times. I know George Will is a political commentor, so please don’t call me stupid and shrill for my mistake. Thanks.

        • Mr Jenkinsen. May 25 Minnesota. June 26-July 3 Wisconsin. July 14-17 Portland. Now in Minnesota. Returning to MA Sept 12. My primary residence is Florida. One can buy a home on MV with an LLC. I have lived and worked in 11 countries and visited 124. I speak Russian and Farsi fluently(even dondondon might attest) Peace Corps volunteer Iran 1967-69. Do you think the government can sometimes use people like me. I dont care if I strain credibility. I came to the US in 1958 and waited 5 years for citizenship. I was stateless before that but I am of white privilege and a supremacist. I owe everything to the United States that kept me alive during the Marshall Plan in Europe. I am also 13 percent Jewish if you believe 23 and me. And just to give you another lie. There is a TV program on Netflix now called Stateless which is about Australian refugee immigration detention camps. I was in one of those in 1949 for three years in Australia but under much worse conditions.

  17. Men who describe frequently outspoken women in misogynistic terms are typically predictable. Just ask Rep. Yoho who learned that the hard way. Women shriek, but men huff, bring, and throw. A government using fascist tactics isn’t worth your time to comment on, either for or against, but posts with no sound volume still shriek inside the head of misogynistic men if they were written by a woman? I didn’t know that.

    • You leap to conclusions. I don’t know your gender. Jackie is a neutral name. Jackie Mason, Jackie Robinson, Jackie Chan, Jackie Gleason…the list goes on. Your tone is shrill, hence the description of shrieking. Whether you are a man or woman is irrelevant.

        • Histrionic people get snide and defensive when their behavior is pointed out to them. You are doing nothing novel here. I am under no illusion that I can talk sense into an insensible person, but hopefully other readers can see that some commenters are making an attempt to be calm and measured in the face of semi-rational loose cannons.

          • And yet you agree with me, as you shoot the messenger. Insensible is favoring tone over truth. But as long as you agree that Andrew has no credibility, it’s all good, despite how hard it was for you to get there. Maybe online commenting isn’t for you. There really are sources where you can pick commentary you admire— and that doesn’t set off any misogyny.

          • If it is on You Tube it is the God’s honest truth.
            Not as honest as Twitter or Facebook but still mostly true.

  18. Copying and reposting. An eyewitness account of what is happening in Portland, Oregon, not unlike other first hand reports I have heard. If you are not concerned, I wonder why.
    Mirabai Daniels
    My FB Friend James Ackerman posted this
    report from a resident of Portland OR. (his father-in-law)
    While I’ve been sort of following the ongoing events in Portland, I was floored by the information I recently received from my father-in-law, Alden Roberts. It is incredibly important that people know what is happening in Portland, because it is very scary and has very real implications for our entire country.
    By way of context, Alden is a general surgeon, retired as the Chief Medical Officer of a hospital in Vancouver, Washington, and just finished his term as the Chairman of the Washington Medical Commission (the state agency that licenses and oversees all doctors in the state). I share this information to emphasize that he is a community leader, a very smart, educated, and informed person, and is not one to exaggerate or spread misinformation.
    Here’s what he has observed in Portland over the past few days:
    “1. The protests are confined to a 2 block radius around the courthouse, and if you’re 4 blocks away, you can’t tell anything has been happening. There is nothing going on outside of that region, and Portland is functioning as normally as the Pandemic will allow. It is not burning, nor is it out of control.
    2. The protesters are absolutely peaceful at the Protests that I have been part of, and with the exception of graffiti, are completely within their constitutional rights to protest. The protests involve singing, chanting, and have used “white walls” to block whites who are trying to disrupt or corrupt the protests. Yes, cursing is rather commonplace. More than ½ of the protesters are white. All are protesting for Black Lives Matter, although the entrance of the federal paramilitary force has brought out a lot of people, including myself, who are incensed at the use of unregulated federal force against law abiding citizen and against the will of the state and local governments.
    3. ALL of the protesters are wearing masks to minimize transmission of CoV-2. However, as at times there are 1000 or more of us, it is hard (though not impossible) to maintain social distancing. When the federal paramilitary force is deployed, it becomes impossible.
    4. The Police responded unprovoked and were brutal, but nothing like the paramilitary force. There is a court order that forbids the police to use teargas. I was not there when it was just the police.
    5. At the protests I have attended, I did not witness any unlawfulness on the part of the protesters. Each time, the federal paramilitary personnel launched an apparently unprovoked attack. There have been no “riots.” The federal paramilitary force has had no training in crowd control, has no oversight, was not invited to Portland by local leadership, does not have any form of identification do not wear name badges, and wears military camo. They are heavily armed with flash-bang grenades, less-lethal bullets, pepper bullets, pepper spray and tear gas. They will pull goggles off of protesters and spray pepper spray into their eyes. They used a baton to beat a US Navy vet, broke his hand and sprayed pepper spray in his eyes because he asked why they weren’t honoring their vow to protect the constitution. During the assault, he stood still and did not resist until blinded by the pepper spray, he turned around and walked away. The “line of mothers” on Sunday was gassed and shot with less-lethal bullets for chanting Black Lives Matter. At least one was pregnant. A protester holding a sign up with both hands was shot in the head with a “non-lethal” bullet and will likely have permanent brain damage. While I have not personally seen this, there are videos of people being kidnapped into unmarked vans by the federal paramilitaries as they left the protests, held for a couple of days, interrogated, then released without charges or explanation. At this time, re-read my first two points. The protests are no threat to Portland and only encompass a 2 block area. They have been peaceful, with graffiti as the only illegal activity. They are well controlled and supported by a cross section of Portlanders. There is no reason for the federal government to be involved, and the excessive force being used appears to be nothing more than a political show of force against US Citizens by the Trump administration.
    6. About 3000 protesters showed up last night (July 21); all with masks, very well behaved. Certainly no chaos, no violence on the part of the protesters. I left at 10:30, the paramilitary attacked at 12:30. I spent an hour talking to the medics. They say they are being targeted by the paramilitary personnel. They are often the first to be shot at and tear gassed. When they try to help an injured protester, the paramilitary personnel throw flash-bangs and tear gas at them (they carry gas masks). One of them was beaten, dragged away from the injured person they were treating and arrested. They are from OHSU as well as Portland Fire.
    7. The Elk statue was taken down by the Police to “protect” it, but the Elk statue was a favorite of the protesters because it was uncontroversial; so they got a blow-up elk and put it where the real statue used to stand. It’s sort of a rallying point.”
    This should concern, if not terrify, all of us. This is an unidentified and unaccountable federal police presence attacking American citizens who are not violating any federal laws. This is literally how the “secret police” in other authoritarian regimes began. The comparison to the early stages of Nazi Germany is NOT AN EXAGGERATION anymore.
    Silence is complacency. Please share this post. Please spread this information. Please get involved. Do not allow or condone this conduct by our federal government. I don’t care which political party you support, this is an affront to the U.S. Constitution and the founding principals of our nation.

    • Great post, Ann, thank you. Wall of Vets, Wall of Moms, and Wall of Dads make me so proud to be an American who loves her country. Black Lives Matter. Fascist tactics used to win back lost support in an upcoming election is anti-American.

    • Thank you so much for providing a credible report from a respectable individual. This is worth more than a thousand barks back and forth between the usual characters.

      • Why do people who don’t like to express opinons here– because they say they don’t know enough and are relying on MV Times commenters to inform them of current events– have no trouble forming opinions of those who keep themselves informed? Do informed people owe it to the lazy to keep a certain tone when expressing opinions on our falling apart government? Maybe it’s just me, but I wouldn’t inform myself on serious issues by turning to comments at a small newspaper when there are so many other widely available sources for news of the horrifying and always unfolding national dramas. There are enough conflicting opinions and enough lies on here at the Times comments to confuse anyone who is unwilling to go to reliable national sources. In addition to the recommended sources on the provided link, there is also social media where you can follow the feeds of people who you trust as well as those you don’t trust. Fascists, like Hitler, did not trust any news sources. Trump, also a fascist and a racist, one who is led by the nose by the far right “relgious” extremists, calls the news media the “enemy of the people”. That’s what fascists do. In my view, it is the responsibility of every good American to inform themselves using every reliable, respected source they can… and to vote.


        Also, Wesley, I am curious if your computer has some sort of sound feature that lets you hear barking or shrieking when you read something online?

        • It’s called basic literacy and the ability to distinguish authors tone- no special technology necessary.

      • Except the picture that Ann’s post paints is at odds with the video and reporting by even the corporate media. Even CNN doesn’t hide the fires and the bricks.

          • I agree, Jackie. It will likely not be the right campaign strategy but it’s the right thing to do.

        • I just do not understand what would drive the good citizens of Portland to light fires and throw bricks just because a thousand miles away some guy had a knee on a neck for a little too long.
          And people say that Portlanders are a warm and loving people.
          They should show that love to CPB agents who just trying to protect them from themselves.
          The agents would not arrest nearly as many of them.
          There would be less blood.

    • Ann, this is indeed interesting read. Presuming that it is an accurate portrayal of events, it would have to mean that the photographs and video I’ve seen in the corporate media of fires and burning buildings are fabricated. Is this what you are implying?

    • You didn’t mention the part about the protestors peacefully blinding three federal agents with lasers, or exercising their right to protest by attempting to set the federal courthouse on fire, or the man that was held down by several protestors and peacefully stabbed.

      • bluefish– ever hear of self-defense? When you are being gassed and beaten by an unknown assailant, you have the right to defend yourself even if it turns out that assailant is a member of the Gestapo.

  19. My comment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people PEACEABLY to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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