Trump is not my president

By
The Martha's Vineyard Times
-
84

To the Editor:

Trump and his congressional Republican sycophants are making a mockery out of the presidency and the judicial system of the U.S. Since his inauguration, Trump’s volatile administration has been like a continuous game of musical chairs. Not only can’t he keep his administration together, but recently six of his close associates have become convicted criminals. Trump’s presidency is like a fast-moving cancer, decaying what was once a reasonably healthy human body.

First of all, not only did President Obama pull this country out of an economic disaster 10 years ago, but he and his administration and their eight years in office created the good economy that we have today, NOT Trump.

Not only is Trump’s contamination infecting our country’s Constitution, unity, rule of law, ecology, economy, and our morals (to name a few), his questionable approach to governing is spreading throughout the world, fueled by his disrespect for the United Nations, our allies, and the environment. What kind of man ridicules a 16-year-old-girl who is trying to make our planet a better place? What kind of a human being at one of his pep rallies makes fun of a handicapped person? What kind of patriot disrespects a decorated military hero because he got captured? What kind of a citizen disrespects the parents of one of our fallen soldiers? What kind of a businessman creates a university in his own name that defrauds and rips off the students? What kind of husband is off fornicating with a porn star four days after his wife has given birth to their son? What kind of creep then has his lawyer threaten the porn star and her daughter with violence, and then pays off the mother to keep them quiet? What kind of gentleman tells a reporter that he grabs women’s genitals and does whatever he wants with them (I’ll never understand why some women voted for him), and what kind of human being separates children from their families, and then loses track of where they are sent? What kind of a president won’t release his tax information?

We all know that I could go on and on recalling the facts of the harm that this “man” has caused and continues to cause. This unethical, arrogant liar has no right to be the president of the U.S. He’s not my idea of what a good president should be. Is he yours?

Peter Pfluger
Vineyard Haven

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84 COMMENTS

  1. Mr Pfluger it is policy over persona for most of us. We would rather have a 4 time married tattooed and pierced pilot flying the plane who knows how to do it well than a clean cut polite amateur who is inexperienced. For all of us deplorable’ s we knew that anyone would be better than Hilary. As for Obama being responsible for our economy, that is simply laughable. We wish he wouldn’t say the things he does but if Pence were President you would still hate him in-spite of his good manners.

    • Persona ??? This isn’t about persona.Its about words/actions/deeds. Trump’s “persona” is despiCable, but it’s his words/actions/deeds that make him unfit to be our president.Its really very simple: you are either a person who believes our president should demonstrate the sort of leadership qualities and moral character that you would want in your own children,or you don’t. You don’t. You either put the greater good above your portfolio,or you don’t. You either believe that character matters, or you don’t.You don’t.And your not alone. Sad.

      • Gutsy. Moral character from the Presidency left a long time ago. I seek it in my spiritual leaders but not in my secular leaders. I want the Supreme Court shaped in conservative originalism. I want Israel defended. I want abortion one day to cease and be looked upon as slavery is now. I want as little government as possible. I want capitalism and entrepreneurship to thrive. I want secularism and one world order deterred. I want blacks and Hispanics and other minorities to thrive economically. Trump gives me that. Simple.

        • Not all of us share your political views. You have every right to be conservative in your own thoughts and nobody should argue with that.
          I would hate Pence policies but not the man.This is what a democracy is all about.
          But having a president who shares your political leanings and garners your undying support but is otherwise a narcissistic bigoted misogynist is just plain sad.
          It’s ok to insist on moral character in your leader irrespective of whether they align with your personal opinions.
          Character, morality, ethics SHOULD MATTER.

          • Translation of Andrew’s “political” views, which are the views of a cult granting a ridiculous Chosen One status to the most debased human being to hold the office of the US Presidency: ‘Character’ mattered to evangelicals when it was Bill Clinton being impeached. Now that it’s a guy who makes Clinton look like a goody-two-shoes in areas that don’t involve women, an immoral ‘character’ suddenly doesn’t matter in a secular leader. It’s called “hypocrisy”. “Conservative originalism” in the Supreme Court has no concrete meaning, but perhaps here it means a privileged, fake-Christian, white male view that prefers a time when women and slaves had no vote. Who knows? The Israel defense is purely self-serving and it is based on a cult fantasy that imagines all jews converting to christianity. Andrew’s world of politics wants money and a lot of it, and he wants religion in all the places it doesn’t belong– like in schools and government and women’s bodies. He wants his cult to have control over women’s rights to reproductive healthcare. Of course, actual character, morality and ethics should matter because they DO matter– to those of us who do not belong to a cult that dictates otherwise to the brainwashed who separate secular from religion, but only when it’s convenient to the cult teaching.

  2. The president of the United States and his behavior should be respected in the eyes of our citizens, in the eyes of our children for generations to come, by historians, and by the world. If Trump’s supporters consider him to be a good role model for their children, then what kind of human beings are they? Doesn’t the act of separating children from their parents ring any bells?

    Hitler tried to make Germany great again. How did that work out for all his supporters who didn’t care about his morals and ethics? Bad history keeps repeating itself for all of those who choose to forget or ignore it. Unfortunately, those people end up dragging potentially millions of innocent people down with them.

    Check out this 1 minute, 40 second, Youtube video link from 2011 featuring Trump making an idiot out of himself again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ecqMwLjTqQ

    • Pfluger. Your definition of behavior would have us disqualify JFK, Bill Clinton who were serial adulterers. FDR and Eisenhower both had mistresses. Long standing ones. No one says Trump is a good role model. No one. Obama and Bush also separated families–not as much as Trump but they did it also. Look it up. Ok you dont like Trump but stop the self righteous moralizing. Didnt you say back in 1998 that Clinton’s behavior has nothing to do with his presidential leadership?

      • Andrew– JFK, Clinton, FDR and Eisenhower are not president. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves.
        So what ?
        The bad behaviour of former presidents does not excuse the blatant moral deprivation of this arguably mentally ill president.
        And who are you, Andrew, to lecture anyone about ” self righteous moralizing”.
        You, who argue the morality of legal abortions, and refer to distraught women as “murderers”.
        You, who passionately argue the the various “points’ about LGBTQ issues,
        You, who wish to deny the right of trans people to use the bathroom of their gender identification.
        You, who say that gay people can live together, but “don’t call it marriage”
        All based on your sense of self righteous morality.
        Andrew, you lecturing someone about their “self righteous moralizing” for opposing the kidnapping of children, the murder of a high ranking official of a sovereign nation, serial adultery, lies, theft, corruption, total disregard for any other living creature on the planet,and generally deplorable behaviour is truly as hypocritical as it gets. Have you no shame ?

        • Dondondon try to stay on point. Mr Pfluger established a standard and I simply told him that others who he would have supported didnt meet that standard. I have never called women who abort their babies ”murderers”. I dont deny to others what is legal but there is a difference between legal and moral. Use what ever bathroom you want but let me laugh at you and pity you. Yes killing a high ranking official who is a terrorist is a good thing. You presumably supported the taking out of Bin laden—oh he wasnt high ranking but we did kill him for what he did rather than what he was going to do. You hate Trump so much you cant even think straight.

        • Thank you, Don. And now that it’s apparent Iran accidentally shot down the Ukrainian plane killing 176 innocent people, Trump has the blood of 176 souls on his hands. If Trump hadn’t lied about an “imminent threat” from Iran as a distraction from his impeachment, trying to start a chest thumping war, these people would still be alive. What killer dictator will Trump recklessly go after next if John Bolton gets to testify?

          • You seem to ignore the facts that hundreds of americans have died, and thousand have others have lost limbs from this terrorist, who thankfully will never take another breath of air. Not to mention the thousands of civilians killed by his terrorist regime. If Iran wasn’t so incompetent, they wouldn’t have shot down a civilian aircraft that JUST departed from THEIR airport. Or the morons at Ukraine airlines that sent a passenger aircraft into an flight area prohibited by most of the world airlines. Thankfully Trump had the testicular fortitude to deal with Obama chose not to. Lets not forget Clinton had Osama Bin Laden ‘on a platter’ and chose NOT to be a commander-in chief and did not take him out. My next of kind of my friends who died in the world trade center weren’t too happy with Bill Clinton for that.

          • Nowhere, you seem to ignore that this was an impulsive, reckless act that was not advised by the military. Trump is an imbecili

          • Nowhere, you seem to ignore that this was an impulsive, reckless act that was not advised by the military. Trump is an imbecilic, pathological liar. Even Republicans who were let in on what the circumstances were that precipitated the killing of this killer admit that there was no “imminent threat” and that this was a terrible excuse to fan the flames. But it got the impeachment off the 6 oclock news for a day or two. Distraction is trump’s middle name, like with all other conmen. You also seem to forget that our country did nothing when Keshoggie was murdered. How about the horrible murderer leading North Korea? Want the idiot you support to take him out, too?

          • Jackie, do you think he got this advice on the golf course? Of course the military gives him options. The fact is this terrorist is responsible for the killing of over 700 US soldiers and the maiming of thousands. The incompetent Iranians shot down a civilian airline with surface-to-air missiles paid for with the 150 billion, including 1.8 billion sent in cash on a pallet to Iran by the Obama-Biden-Kerry administration. Its comical to watch Democrats ‘incensed’ by the President using his power, but when Obama blasted Bin laden the ‘corks were popping’ with the Democrats. And he was never questioned for his drone strikes that killed terrorists. I’ve never been a fan of Obama, but never questioned his actions with respect to eliminating terrorists any where in the world. Living on this island people are in a bubble thinking ‘it cant happen here’. The world is a dangerous place when dealing with radical Islamic terrorists who do not value life. The world is a better place because Trump took out this terrorist. Any blame for collateral damage or innocent lives lost in this case is squarely on the incompetent Iranians. Just imagine, if they can’t differentiate between a civilian airline that just departed THEIR airport, imagine how many inbound flight would get blasted if they had a nuclear bomb. My only regret is that Trump and Israel did not use this opportunity to take out their nuclear sites.

          • Nowhere, what advice concerning the fake imminent treat are you talking about? The lie trump made up that 4 embassies were targeted? Everyone who was briefed now knows what trump supporters fell for. Did you know t he s killing was part of ca a bigger, failed plan? I’m sorry to inform you but you are supporting a pathological liar and a conman. But don’t let that stop you.

          • not new– I think it interesting that you likely do not consider Donald Rumsfeld and DICK Cheney terrorist, even though they directed an invasion of a sovereign country based on what they knew were lies at the time. Those lies, and that invasion resulted in the deaths of over 200 thousand innocent civilians. For you anti abortion people out there, I can assure you that some of the people who died were unborn. It also resulted in the deaths of over 4,500 us soldiers and counting. https://www.statista.com/statistics/263798/american-soldiers-killed-in-iraq/
            If Iranians were coming to North America and murdering innocent civilians, and the president of Iran were issuing pardons to war criminals, you would be calling for them to wiped off the face of the earth.
            When we will stop with the idiotic lie about the Obama
            administration giving the Iranians all that cash ? It was their money–whether you like it or not— it was their money, that the United States legally froze until they complied with our demands.
            They complied, we gave them their money. Part of what they agreed to do, was to allow inspectors from the IAEA to come into their country at any time, unannounced, and inspect their nuclear facilities. They also agreed to limits on the production and enrichment of uranium, guaranteeing they would not develop a nuclear weapon. This is called following the law– The united States cannot just steal money from any country they want.
            And that would be a pretty big pallet to hold 1.8 billion in cash
            A 9 ft cube–
            And finally, I have to address your comment about the collateral damage of the shooting down of a civilian aircraft, and their incompetence.
            Sorry to let you know, but when the military boys get excited , all bets are off.
            The USS Vincennes “accidentally” shot down an iranian passenger jet during a period of heightened tensions
            https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/10/middleeast/iran-air-flight-655-us-military-intl-hnk/index.html
            The Russians shot malaysian flight # 17 out of the air during the conflict over Crimea
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
            And the Soviet Union shot down Korean Airlines flight #007 for being off course.
            https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/korean-airlines-flight-shot-down-by-soviet-union
            To the point– there is no shortage of incompetence when it comes to the military when it feels under pressure..
            Such is the cost of spending trillions of dollars on the military industrial complex, and ignoring the benefits of diplomacy.

          • Jackie and dondondon12… I guess you’re still believing that Benghazi was caused by an internet video Do we look to Obama and Hillary for truth? . And as far as Rumsfield and Cheney.. they rely upon the career intelligence folks.. the same ones who were used by the former administration to concoct the hoax about Russian interference, hoax about impeachment, and anything to undermine our duly elected President. And thanks to the US government giving Saddam Hussein a ‘heads up’ that and invasion was coming, he moved his WMD to Syria. (which they later used on their own people) And watching the people rising up against the regime in Iran is another ++ from the actions of your President, Mr. Donald J. Trump. He won’t be removed from office, and the Democrats can try and concoct more of their nonsense, but if they can’t produce a viable candidate that isn’t a socialist or a 77 year old who spent 40 years in DC on the wrong side of every issue, we will have 4 more years of President Trump (thankfully).

          • notnew– it seems to become clearer over time that the people who coined the term “TDS” are in fact the one’s suffering from it. They are more paranoid and irrational than the liberals.. Sorry to point that out to you.
            So let’s talk Benghazi. The republican senate repeatedly denied the request from the state department for more security there.
            Hilary stated her opinion that it was the result of the movie ( there were in fact many riots across the middle east as a result of that movie) , and retracted that statement within a matter of days.
            thump, on the other hand has refused to admit that Jamal Khashoggi was murdered at the behest of top Saudi officials, despite overwhelming evidence.
            The republican senate spent 3 years and 7 investigations on Benghazi, and came up with squat. No indictments, no arrest, no convictions of wrongdoing.The same for the e mail “scandal” In fact, a real couple of REAL witch hunts.
            The Mueller investigation, however found a putrid pile of &%^%
            under every rock they overturned while looking at the trump 2016 campaign. Most of his top aids are either in jail, indited, or going to jail. If you think there was no interference by Russia in the 2016 campaign, you have a truly unhealthy case of TDS. I know — NO COLLUSION ! But, abuse of power, obvious campaign funding violations, lying to congress by top aids, obstruction of justice, and numerous swamp rats in jail is good enough for me.
            And really, you are kidding that Saddam actually had WMD’s and moved them, and that the Bush administration was telling the truth and was justified to invade a sovereign country and start an unprovoked war that has resulted in the destabilization of the entire region , if not the planet for the last 16 years, right ? you gotta be kidding…

        • Sorry for all the typos. I was typing on my phone. I especially like that THREAT was autocorrected to TREAT.

      • I think Andrew’s point was that Democrats have a history of voting for, and sometimes idolizing, people with horrible character, too, then acting like only Trump is unworthy on moral grounds. This is not a new problem. This stolen country was built on Trumpesque actions and beliefs. There have also been plenty of modern immoral leaders, voted in by both parties. The difference I see between those men and Trump — and why I feel he gets the reaction he does — is that the other guys played the game better. Their personas were crafted. Most of their public words were shrewd. That works in matters of diplomacy. It’s not so great when it allows voters to ignore what lies beneath. Plus, they didn’t have Twitter to showcase their foolishness. Trump has no chill, so we always know what awful thing he’s thinking.

        But. Those people were still narcissists who caused harm. Still unfit. Some, like Bill Clinton, to an (allegedly ?) criminal degree, with credible evidence. Voters had this info and elected him anyway. Twice. Now the same party — the very same people, even — are acting shocked by Trump’s sexual deeds. Trump voters see this discrepancy and don’t like being faulted by unclean hands. So they resist admitting to what their guy has obviously done. ‘Round and ’round, no progress, because hardly anyone wants to be honest. I’m not trying to insult. I’m just outlining what I see as the partial cause of the divide.

        There’s no reason to leave Trump in office because of these prior mistakes. I’m not saying that. We must speak up about him. It’s HOW we speak that matters. Has to be done with integrity. If someone voted for Bill Clinton after knowing what he’s done to a long list of women, over a period of decades, and then condemned Trump’s sexist actions, I would find that intensely hypocritical. I was a kid when Clinton was in office. Still knew what he did. Not talking about Lewinsky. And yet plenty of self-described woke (my most hated word) voters were RECENTLY happy to show support for a woman who stayed married to and promoted this man. Some Democrats watched her champion women’s rights in the process, with no sense of irony or shame. I have no judgement towards her for staying with a cheater. That’s her business. But Bill is WAY more than a cheater, and she helped him to rise to the top, further harming his accusers. No party is innocent, so maybe we should work on solutions instead of being too defensive. Or offensive.

        Don, as for saying “so what?” to Jefferson owning slaves… A *lot* of posters on these articles, and Americans in general, talk about the so-called founding fathers with reverence. We are told how wise they were. You can’t critique them without angering someone. I’ve tried. Well, you can’t mention the Constitution at every turn and then say that it’s in the past when the very topic is how we choose our influential leaders. It’s kind of a big deal that men with such posthumous power owned and raped black people. Among other sins. The repercussions have never been properly dealt with, yet we still follow (understatement) their guidance. Was America ever great? That depends on what traits you enter the world with. We don’t all live in the same America.

        We could set a new standard, one based on learning from our mistakes. I hope we will. Democrats made SUCH a huge deal in 2016 about how women should not be governed by a man who sees them as just a body part worthy of grabbing. I totally, completely agree. We also never should’ve been ruled by a man who gave a woman a black lip while he (aLlEgEdLy) raped her. Who then glibly told her to put some ice on it, but only once he was done using her like a toy. And we most definitely shouldn’t have nominated the woman who stood by this (alleged) rapist and harasser *even after it kept happening*. When we don’t own our mistakes, we tank our own causes by losing credibility with the other side. I don’t usually drag these people or their pasts up because I try to focus on the now, but I’m *also* trying to say that Trump’s inflamed base is never going to listen if they don’t see some humility. I guess we will never win over his dedicated supporters anyhow, but swing voters may be turned off if they perceive hypocrisy.

        I hope we can do better than all of these men. And the complicit Ms. Clinton. Wouldn’t be asking much. But that’s not what I see coming. After all this protesting on moral grounds — which I agree with in theory, if not always in execution — the Democrats better put forward one hell of a morally solid candidate with NO track record of harassing or dismissing women, children, LGBTQ, the disabled, or people of color. Both because we need a non-pervy, respectful leader now more than ever, and because we can’t discredit Trump on a moral basis unless someone presents a true alternative. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

        • Aquinnah continues to surprise me. I dont agree with her/him often but the thinking is consistent and clear and deep and I have new found respect for Aquinnah.

          • Thanks, Andrew. And I’m female. ? That’s probably a big part of why I couldn’t get on board with Hillary, even though I never wanted Trump.

          • Aquinnah, yes, mysogyny and people like you helped us get this:

            “I never understood wind, I know windmills very much, I’ve studied them more than anybody… But they’re manufactured tremendous — if you’re into this — tremendous fumes, gases are spewing into the atmosphere. You know we have a world, right? So the world is tiny compared to the universe. So tremendous, tremendous amount of fumes and everything. You talk about the carbon footprint — fumes are spewing into the air. Right? Spewing. Whether it’s in China, Germany, it’s going into the air. It’s our air, their air, everything — right?”

      • Jackie, I don’t know what you mean by ‘people like me’. If you’re assuming I voted for Trump or that I support him in any way, that’s incorrect. Never have and never will. I said that multiple times in this thread, even within the post about the Clintons. Yes, Hillary Clinton lost votes simply for being female, and that’s wrong. My point was that she also lost votes for failing to practice what her own party preaches, which is holding rapists and other predators legally and socially accountable. When people attacked her for not smiling enough or not wearing skirts, I defended her. Those are sexist, petty claims that have no place in politics. She’s a person, not a doll. But I can’t defend her morality.

        I agree that Trump’s windmill rant was embarrassing, even dangerous, but I’m not responsible for the words of a man I didn’t elect, any more than you are.

        • People like you admit you didn’t stand behind Hillary, ergo, an unfit, reckless, racist, anti-Semitic, corrupt, lying, windmill idiot is what we’re stuck with. Hillary, who has been investigated for YEARS and cleared of criminal wrongdoing, is far from perfect, but morally is Mother Theresa relative to Trump. In any case, much self-righteousness prevented voters from voting Hillary, so yes, no matter who is the Dem nominee, I hope this go round you, Bernie bro’s, libertarians, and everyone else who stupidly withheld their vote in 2016, go with #AnyoneButTrump.

          Really, not sure what you are blaming Hillary for—having a cheating husband? She would have been a lot better for this country than the divisive slob in the WH who threatened to blow up Iranian cultural sites.

          • Jackie, I didn’t vote in 2016 because I was in the hospital and couldn’t. There’s no reason to call me stupid or make assumptions.

            What I said is that I never felt Hillary was a morally sound candidate in the first place because of her blatant hypocrisy and the way she covered for, and benefitted from, a sexual predator. I stated point blank that I do not blame her for Bill’s affair. Nor do I judge her for staying with him after that incident. That much is her personal business.

            What I am holding her accountable for is staying married to a known alleged rapist, flasher, molester, and harasser, one who has never been held accountable, despite claims going back to the ’70s. One with multiple accusers. She is complicit for supporting his political career and helping him come into power while those women saw no justice. Her own career benefitted from the rise of his. She then went on to sell herself as a champion for women’s causes, of all things. She is not. You cannot be both a representative for victims’ rights and a person who promotes a rapist that attacked a woman and left her bruised. You can’t call half the country deplorable while being married to a deplorable. Not if you want to be seen as a trustworthy leader. Yes, maybe she would’ve been better than Trump. They are very different. His flaws and why they’re unique aren’t lost on me. But I already said what I think about the “lesser of two evils” standard. It’s pretty low. That was my point. Let’s do away with such a low moral bar, regardless of parties. This time, we deserve candidates with good character. I want to replace Trump. I would just like to do it with someone who respects *all* U.S. citizens. The same standard you keep mentioning.

            As for being divisive, you are attacking me even when I agree with you. Behavior like that is a huge part of this division. If people are on your side and you still tilt at them like they’re Trump-befuddling windmills, it’s not going to help bring back a sense of unity or civility.

            I agree about Trump’s handling of Iran.

          • Actually, you are blaming Hillary and holding HER accountable for her husband’s behavior. She had nothing to do with it. Nothing. And she is a champion of women’s causes, whether or not you agree. If I held every woman accountable for staying with a guy who behaved like an immoral pig at one time or another, hurting other women, I’d have few women friends. You are not stupid and I didn’t call you stupid. Namecalling is not allowed here. In order to move forward in life, the “lesser of two evils” standard is something grown-ups have to deal with and make consessions and compromises about, if they wish to move forward and accomplish anything in life. Otherwise, you (general you, not you personally) get stuck with someone like Trump and complain, while maintaining your high standards, which, with $8.49, with get you a 14 ounce container of Haagen Dazs at Cronigs.

            The reason I brought up windmills was not simply because of Trump’s idiocy, ignorance, and inability to think and speak and act, but because of the environmental impact his administration is causing by not moving forward with environmental protections in place or looking for new ways to help deal with what is happening to our earth. If you don’t support a “lesser evil” like Bernie or Biden or Warren, (or Hillary when plural you had the chance), you can say goodbye to women’s reproductive health rights, too. Forget the Supreme Court. Hillary would never have nominated a sexist, lying, hysterical, boofing pig like Kavanaugh who is now in a position to damage hundreds of thousands of women and their rights. I’m afraid your soapbox is immature and blind and does more damage than you realize. Idealism is great, in your teen years and 20’s when you have nothing to lose and can afford it. The trick is to maintain your idealism but couch it in a realism that can get things done in the real world. Greta is great, but she’s a teenager and therefore inspires us all (who care to see her idealism). Making friends with someone who sidles up to you with compliments while fiercely and angrily defending his wish to impose his cult religious beliefs into democratic government policy, while falsely claiming he doesn’t want government interference (!) doesn’t say much for your standards, I’m afraid.

            Calling Trump supporters “deplorables” was unwise and yet human, given their behaviors at those Trump rallies, and yet the President of the United States calls other human beings, “human scum”. The lesser of two evils doesn’t look so bad when you compare that– deplorable vs human scum. Hmmm.

          • aquinnah– I wonder what your opinion is of Melania , given trumps multiple transgressions, and payment of hush money.
            I have never heard a republican criticize her for staying with her husband.

          • Don, no one needs to criticize Melania for staying with a cheating husband. Criticism of her lands squarely on her for who she is. She’s a plagiarizing, lying-through-her-teeth liar, about everything from her lack of education to how many languages she can’t speak. And then there’s her racist Birtherism. No need to involve the bum she is married to. The racist liar can stand on her own.

    • What did you tell your children when Bill Clinton was taking liberties in the oval office with a young intern and a cigar? Quite the role model… or does he get a ‘pass’ since he’s a democrat. Or your local former state rep, Gerry studs, taking liberties with a page, an under-age boy. I’m sure his parents didn’t vote for Gerry.

      • Jackie, you called my assumed actions stupid. About voting. I don’t think turning stupid into an adverb makes it any less rude, but I accept it’s not my paper.

        I’m holding Hillary accountable for her own actions. She spoke out about the allegations against Bill and dismissed his many victims/accusers in the process. She abused her power in doing so. She claims HE is an exception to #metoo while others are not. He’s a prime example of the problem. We all know it. That’s as laughable as saying Trump doesn’t like to grab felines. And that makes her disingenuous. Tons of accusations, all wildly inappropriate and illegal. Just because a powerful man escaped charges does not mean he is innocent. She cannot have it both ways. She either believes that we give women who have been assaulted a real voice or she doesn’t. She either respects assault victims or she promotes an alleged rapist who has no remorse. I fully believe those charges. There are multiple people who have backed it up for 40 years. Patterns rarely lie.

        I’ve no doubt you find Ivanka’s behavior complicit. Do you? If so, I totally agree. It’s the same exact thing. To a T. It’s not Ivanka’s fault that her father is Trump. It IS her fault that she supports him, works with him, benefits from his unjust power, profits financially, and sometimes excuses him outright. Hillary is not a private citizen excusing a minor issue. She was a presidential candidate who dismissed a brutal claim against her very powerful, rich, privileged husband. Insult to injury. People already have a hard enough time taking sex crimes seriously. I don’t mean affairs. I mean a complete lack of consent. It damages the cause when someone like her, someone with a massive platform that dwarfs the victims’, makes an exception for the very rule. Conflict of interest. She has made that exception for decades, via her continues promotion of him, in the name of personal gain. To make a career on the backs of victims is sick. You carried on about Melania’s “lesbian” nudes. Are you more offending by seeing consensually photographed breasts than by a possible rapist or his rape apologist, in the form of a power couple?

        Your ageism isn’t appreciated or necessary. If you think discrimination is wrong, understand that counts, and I would never say the same to you. You know nothing about my life experiences or all of my views, and you’re twisting what you do know. I am not an idealist. I NEVER stated or implied I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat or “compromise”. I never said ALL the potential nominees are unacceptable. I ONLY named Biden as problematic. My point was NOT that we need a perfect candidate. Just one who does not behave inappropriately. That’s asking too much? How, when the argument against Trump is that his inappropriate behavior is unacceptable?

        If you are referring to me talking to Andrew as being too friendly or not taking a firm enough stance, that’s untrue and, frankly, petty. I wrote him novellas that were very straightforward. I wouldn’t hesitate to talk to him or anyone else about these serious issues again. That’s why we’re here. I *did* try to address him with civility. Yes. We’re all real people, Andrew included, and if I’m asking him to be more empathetic towards LGBTQ, then I feel the need to practice what I preach and not attack him too personally. Just his arguments. It had nothing to do with compliments. But sure, if someone is kind to me, I try to be kind in return. That’s how I was taught to behave. Please, thank yous, and “I’m sorries” when needed. It doesn’t mean I share his views on gay rights. You are so against Trump’s incivility and then challenge me for being too civil. That’s not logical to my way of thinking.

        I understand the environmental impact of Trump. That’s why I called his comment dangerous. That’s one of the main reasons I would like to see him gone.

        Saying that rapists or harassers and their cheerleaders should not govern the people is not a soapbox. It’s just common sense. There is nothing immature about what I’m saying, if you look at what I actually stated vs. your embellishments, i.e. that claim I won’t vote for Warren, etc.. I have been paying strict attention to how these discussions go online. Not just here. I have noticed things that continue to push support over to Trump from undecided voters. I wanted to bring some of them up because there’s still time for Democrats to choose someone with strong morals and everyone should understand that doing so strengthens the anti-Trump argument.

        As for doing damage to a cause, you attack almost everyone on these pages with no sense of restraint. We all joke or get a little sarcastic, but this is overkill. Do you think that will make people want to change sides? It doesn’t. I’m already on your side and find it off-putting. People on the fence will be turned away by attacks. You are free to dismiss me as young and ignorant (so much for no insults) if you choose, but I’m plenty old enough to have been harassed by men. I’m good with my right to speak up about it.

        I have never said an unkind word to you, so your approach was uncalled for and odd. I’m not crying snowflake tears over it or eating my feelings. but it’s awkward to have to address assumptions about *me* rather than the issues we come here to chat about.

        • You’re telling me something I did not say or assume about you. There’s a difference between you the person and you the plural, when speaking of what people do, including what people stupidly do. If you fit yourself in any category I described, fine. I’ve been called worse things than rude. Also, your feelings about what in your mind Hillary did wrong are about you, not about her, and certainly not about her long, professional record of helping women in very concrete ways. Remember how hard she fought for health care? I do. As a long time member of the MeToo club, like every woman I know, I know what I’m talking about. You are unable to articulate anything concrete about what exactly Hillary professionally did wrong by not dumping Bill and how that disqualified her from being a good president. You see what the alternative has been, right? Sometimes people bite off their nose to spite their face. People who knew Trump was a lying conman refused to vote for Hillary because they hated her— for all kinds of reasons, mostly for being female— and some, like you, hated her for doing what most women do when faced with a lying cheat after a lifetime and child(ren) together. Maybe people think they punished her for not doing what you plural wanted, but in fact, our country, our standing in the world, and our environmental world itself has taken a brutal beating. That is more harmful to women than you allow yourself to imagine.

    • No one makes a bigger mockery of pretending to care about morality than the fake, cult religion of Evangelical born-agains, bible quotes and all. No one.
      https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/11/donald-trump-evangelicals-rally-stunning-sad-unprecedented-column/4421150002/
      This comes on the heels of Christianity Today calling for Trump’s impeachment. Let them fight out their obscene hypocrisy amongst themselves and then just laugh when they make noises about what’s immoral in our country today.

      • Don, my Melania opinion is three-fold. I think she obviously married him for money, and I don’t respect that at all.

        I think she’ll stay with him now no matter what he does, least until her son is an adult, because he has a vindictive streak. She is probably worried about losing custody. For that, I see no reason to blame her. I feel for their son and don’t trust his father.

        But most of all, I think Melania is irrelevant because she’s not running for president of the United States and trying to convince me we’re soul sisters in a fight against gross, corrupt, sexually deviant men.

        All while abusing her power by helping to bury her husband’s accusers, no less.

        If she did any of *that*, I’d laugh and think she had to be kidding. I bet you would, too. I’d never vote for her. Being married to Trump would disqualify her from trying to fix the problem that is Trump-y behavior or preach to us. Especially if that marriage lasted many decades.

  3. I have always considered Trump to be mentally unfit for office. I still think he will be easily re-elected. He has the support of people who love him for his policies, and further support from those who are on board with his behavior. Some find his personality to be a plus. They’re not just overlooking it. I think those people will vote in record numbers to keep him.

    I also believe Biden will get the nom, so there is no good solution in sight, least to me. He disgusts me, and so many of his defenders are hypocritical. I’m really depressed that it may come down to Trump vs. Biden. While I don’t especially care for any politician, this particular showdown just sounds like four more certain years of being miserable.

    • This is what I mean by “people like you” who will not stand firmly behind the Democratic nominee and will therefore help re-elect the corrupt conman. Being an adult is learning to compromise somewhat for the greater good. You don’t like Biden? He’s a million times better than what Trump is doing to our country. Vote Democrat.

      • Jackie, I’m not a Democrat or Republican, and I have no obligation to vote for a candidate that I find disgusting, sexist, and untrustworthy. Trump is not the only person in Washington who fits that bill or who has mistreated people, unfortunately. It’s not a matter of simply not liking Biden. His treatment of women and children, and his smug joking about it after the fact, is perverse and narcissistic. He takes no accountability for his actions. I will not support a man like that. Not Trump, not Biden. I don’t vote based on liking or disliking a person. I don’t particularly *like* Warren, but that’s fine. I have no basis to say she is morally or ethically unfit. I have no knowledge of her ever crossing the personal boundaries of multiple people or making anyone uncomfortable without remorse, so her candidacy seems in keeping with Democratic issues like #metoo. Biden’s is not. To elect him is to make a joke out of all the protesting about Trump. The country deserves better than either man. Democrats should put forward a good alternative with no Trump-like history. There are a bunch of undecided people who are just looking for someone with integrity, and they are not seeing it in a Trump/Biden race.

        I don’t need to be told to grown up and compromise. That’s plain rude. As someone whose views don’t fall perfectly under one party, any vote I cast is a big compromise. I get it. But I won’t compromise my belief that perverts should stay out of the White House.

          • No, she wasn’t. She was a pervert’s biggest fan while pretending to be an ally for all women. She recently told people to “get over it” in regard to allegations against Biden, too, for being inappropriate.

            Yet when Trump said something pervy and sexist, she clutched her pearls and lamented his character flaws.

            Both men are trash. That’s common sense. Sorry, all three men. Trump, Biden, Clinton.

            A person who excuses two misbehaving rich, white males and condemns the third based on what she stands to gain and who she’s personally friends with is not a champion for women. She’s a fake, a liar, and immoral. All things you object to with Trump. I honestly believed that you meant those objections and are just fee up with what he’s done, but if you don’t have a word of condemnation for Biden or Clinton, then your arguments were never about protecting those who were victimized by powerful men. Seems more like party politics as usual. That’s disappointing. If Trump is bottom of the barrel, and he is, then my call for highER standards should not mean the Democrats have to work too hard. Therefore, it’s not an unreasonable expectation. Take care.

        • Aquinnah. you have identified yourself as a “millennial”. As such, some of the older folks here fully understand that there are things you will learn as you go through the journey of life. I will agree with Andrew when he says you are smart, articulate, and can dissect an argument. You then can have a thoughtful and coherent reply. Thank you– we need more of that here, especially from the perspective of a younger person.
          Having said that, I would ask that you take a closer look at what Jackie said to you Jan 11 8:26 pm. I understand that you do not like Joe Biden because of his history with women. But when we compare him to trump, these 2 men are not even on the same planet. I don’t know how long you have been following politics. I have been very interested in world affairs and politics for most of the last 50 years. I had friends die in Vietnam and in fact likely would have wound up there myself had I not joined the navy. That war was an entirely unnecessary conflict that was perpetrated by politicians we elected. No one is perfect, but trump is a scoundrel of the worst magnitude. He cares nothing about anything but his own ego and pocketbook. He has already recklessly taken us to the brink of a war of his own making. He cares nothing about any other living creature on the planet. Your generation will bear the brunt of his administration’s denial of any environmental issue in the name of a point or 2 of GDP.
          It’s not a matter of Joe touching someone in an uncomfortable way and thinking that is somewhat the same as trump grabbing women by the genitals. Trump is dangerous on every level on every issue that will affect the rest of your life. This is not politics as usual. This time it’s serious.
          I agree with Jackie. anyone but trump.

          • Don, thanks for the kind words about my posts. I appreciate it and have always read your posts with interest. I was born in the ’80s and lightheartedly mentioned that to Andrew because there is a noticeable difference in terminology among generations. That’s all good. I didn’t truly see it as a basis for my stances to be questioned, but I’m used to it. True, experience brings perspective, but experience is not always commensurate with age. Nor is age with maturity. Our lives vary greatly. How can anyone assess someone else’s lens without knowing more about his or her circumstances? Life isn’t that linear. If it were, Trump would have many people beat in the wisdom department based on birthday candles. My 5-year-old puppy shows better judgement. She doesn’t destroy her habitat. You could say he’s exceptionally unwise for his age, but sadly, he isn’t. Plenty of older people share his thinking.

            I will never claim to be the brightest crayon in the Crayola 64 box, that’s not required to see that sexual harassment and complicity are wrong and fixable. I’m actually a political cynic. I don’t care for any politician. I believe the system benefits from keeping the public at war with themselves, leaving the few to their power and wealth. They’re almost all narcissists. Some are just more covert. But we *have* to establish some baseline for what we’ll accept. That’s not a rosy outlook. It’s the anti-Trump argument in a nutshell. I just want to take it one man further, keeping the cry for decency earnest.

            I have always tried to be open to and learn from other people, until they give me reason to stop, because I can’t experience everything personally. None of us can. I understand the point about two evils and longterm consequences. I always have. My point is just that there is no reason to let that be an issue in 2020. The Democrats have candidates who are not in violation of their own standards of decency. Warren has said or done a few things I *strongly* dislike, but I would never hold them against her in a race with Trump. Her mistakes are nowhere near his. So, push her forward. Push Bernie. Push Elmo, who only ever touches children to make them happy.

            But please don’t tell me that Biden is the best we can do when that’s a platform-defeating choice. “Anyone but Trump” gets rid of Trump’s ills. I get it, that’s the main objective. But that thinking still opens us up to further privilege-abusing, daft leadership. Why? There are other options. Some Democrats (not saying you) act morally superior and claim to be discerning. Literally ALL I’m asking for is a non-pervy presidential option while it’s still doable, and I’m being told that’s too much. Maybe the problem is that Biden was allowed to get this far at all and make the most important race shaky.

            I don’t agree with your assessment of the scope of his misconduct or its impact. He didn’t just touch or sniff or caress professional women trying to do their jobs and then laugh about it like the smug fool that he is. Although that’s putrid. There is footage of him interacting with children that makes me sick. I can’t say what I think of it here. The man has something wrong with him. I don’t want to replace one guy like that with another IF we can help it. We *can* help it.

            Something important to note is that dismissing the victims of sexual harassment from an outsider’s perspective doesn’t fix anything because you may have never experienced it. I don’t know. How it feels vs. how it looks are two different things. The emphasis should be on the victim’s perception.

            I share your concerns for a Trump future. I want him out. Just like with war, there’s a strategic way to do that and a clumsy way. I was advocating for strategy, based on what swing voters say they want. My mention of the Clintons and Biden wasn’t a what-aboutism because it wasn’t designed to prop up Trump, though I knew some would miss that. It was a concerned reminder of what happens when a party doesn’t toe its own line or give as many of the people as possible an option they’re demanding. I’ve made it my mission to read up on why people are so divided. Neither party trusts the other to hold themselves to their own professed moral standards. That’s fair. Personal housekeeping strengthens our arguments against the other side and invites those who are usually too demoralized to vote.

            I have to go play with my Barbies now. ? But I hope you see what I mean. It’s supply and demand. There’s demand. So supply them with a decent option and hope it’s enough to catch up to Trump’s zealous support. Peace to you. ?

  4. TDS is real and seemingly has no cure for some within our community. Regardless of the facts TDS victims don’t have the capacity to understand the reality that surrounds them . Peace and prosperity infuriates them. Full employment for all working Americans most notably minorities drives these types crazy. Women in positions of power cannot be accepted by them. Does Community Services have programs for these disturbed individuals?

    • BS, I don’t see how you can attribute the word peace to Trump’s America. He isn’t solely responsible for all of the fighting among our citizens, but he is accountable for his poor response to Charlottesville, or the way his rallies get out of control, or for a certain action taken in Iran that could still have disastrous effects. The way he speaks is not peaceful or calm. It’s often inflammatory, and almost everyone, both his fans and his critics, seems to be feeding off of that when reacting, however unintentional. We have become less civil in our interactions. It’s very chaotic. I could reply to your other claims, but this one bothers me the most because Trump has played a crucial role in destabilizing our sense of harmony. I am not one to paint a happy face on pre-Trump America. There were already many social ills. But it’s reached new levels.

    • “An accusation of TDS is a pretty clear signal the person making it is not interested in honest engagement. The accusation of suffering from “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is an ad hominem attack. The person who invokes TDS repeats a cliche that may have been clever when it was first introduced two Presidents ago. Now, it is the inevitable attack of those who have no facts or cogent arguments to offer.
      Like so many “clever” expressions, it is weaponized language designed to shut down another person. It is the tool of the intellectually lazy and dishonest person. If a person is engaged in unfair criticism of Trump, an honest interlocutor should have no trouble in pointing out where the unfairness lies, e.g., inaccurate information or fallacious argument.”

      So many Trump supporters simply don’t have the intellectual capacity to defend why they support a corrupt, sexist, racist, anti-semitic, xenophobic, homophobic, pathological liar. Can’t fix that at Community Services or anywhere else.

      • Jackie you invented ad hominem attacks. You never have cogent arguments and never argue on the merits. You attack anyone who doesnt agree with you.

      • Point taken, I suppose. So know please enlighten my with actual facts on our “corrupt, sexist, racist, anti-semitic, xenophobic, homophobic, pathological liar” I ‘ll just point out a couple of points such as how gay couples were able to get married at Trump hotels back when Obama was against gay marriage, or how Israel has no bigger supporter in our government than President Trump and it’s hard to call someone a sexist who has a history of promoting women into positions of power. Your inability to provide facts tends to lead one to question the intellectual failings you so profoundly place upon others.

      • So. I’m a never-Trumper. I’m also very impressed with the intelligence displayed in this forum. This is my 1st entry into online opining.
        I will say this – sometimes the choice of words we employ in our argument distracts and cheapens the message. There’s some angry “personal” characterization here that I find unfortunate. As I do when Warren rails against the wealthy, or when Obama referred to “fat-cat” doctors not paying their fair share.
        Let’s crank up the civility. I get the anger, and I want to fully appreciate the message. Peace.

    • BS– you seem to have a bad case of RAD ( reality assimilation disorder) .
      You say ” Regardless of the facts TDS victims don’t have the capacity to understand the reality that surrounds them ” Once again, BS, I challenge you to actually tell those of us who suffer from tds what the reality is. Everything Peter says in his letter is undeniably true. Please, BS, cut through some of the bs for us, and tell us about it, rather than just wave your hands around and say we don’t understand.
      And ,,, I will use my best Greta voice here , and say “HOW DARE YOU” say that people who don’t like trump are “infuriated” by peace and prosperity? Where were you when Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iraq ?
      Where were you when trump killed a top Iranian official ?
      Are you for or opposed to the “chosen one” sending thousands of young men and women into harm’s way in the middle east, ready to engage in yet another useless war of trump’s making ? trump stated that “as long as {he} is president, Iran will not get a nuclear weapon”. On the day he entered office , even if he serves 2 terms, that was guaranteed by the negotiations of the previous administration and the concerted efforts of the global community, and was guaranteed to have that happen in a peaceful way. Now, trump threatens war to stop them.
      HOW DARE YOU imply that liberals crave war ?
      Who are you to tell “us” that WE don’t accept women in positions of power ?
      HOW DARE YOU.
      How far can you attempt to twist the narrative in attempt to demonize others for your beliefs. Stand up,get out from behind your flag and tell us how we are wrong.. And yes, thanks to the liberals, there are plenty of services available for mentally ill people. They will even counsel deplorable people who want to shut them down.

      • With the killing of Soleimani the progressive movement has gone full flower child. Due to weak moderators in debates, no one really knew the policies of some of the candidates but now we know that Sanders wont take action on any rogue regimes. We also know that a President Warren wont take action either as long as they are a ”high ranking person in a sovereign country”. Obama had 500 drone attacks that everyone congratulated but that was then. Those two plus Mayor Pete will now go full throttle after Biden who supported the 2002 invasion of Iraq. Biden is pandering to pacifists and the three progressives are hoping Trump stumbles into a war with Iran. Biden might survive all this but ”those who appease the alligator will simply get eaten last”. Obama had a ”spine of steel” for killing Bin Laden who was hiding in a cave and no threat to anyone, but Soleimani had not only done stuff but was going to do more and they still dont want to kill him. Obama with tons of sanctions and tons of drones was aware of threats to the US but Biden who was VP cant even congratulate Trump for killing a terrorist. Instead he calls it a ‘debacle”You cant make this up. Maybe people on MV think this goes down well in ”fly over country”.

    • Islander —
      Why would you think that peter is “clearly not a legal resident of the United States of America” ?
      The first amendment to the constitution states that we have the right ” to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
      Perhaps since you know nothing about our constitutionally protected right to dissent you are the one that is “clearly not a legal resident of the United States of America”.

      • Donald Trump is the President of the United States. The results of the 2016 election were accepted by Congress. The fact that he does not reflect the values or policies of a citizen does not negate that act.

        • Islander– yes trump “legally” slithered his way into the white house.
          What does that have to do with Peter’s residency ?

  7. First, denial. Then, anger. Paging Dr. Kübler-Ross, the Democrats are DYYYYING!!
    Here’s hoping you make it to ‘Acceptance’ before Trump’s inevitable landslide reelection.

  8. Aquinnah I knew you were female but didnt say anything. Men dont think as clearly as you do and I dont mean that in any gratuitous fashion. It is a great credit to you to be able to disassemble a concept as well as you do and then put together a cogent and coherent comment. Too bad you are not always on the right side.(my obligatory facetiousness)

    • Andrew, I appreciate the kind words and am glad we can find some common ground. The topics I’ve been most vocal about matter a lot to me, so I try to unjumble what’s in my head and get it across in text. That’s the tough part. Soooo much easier with in-person conversations. I miss those old things. ?

      “Too bad you are not always on the right side.”

      Ha, you can probably chalk that up to me being a dreaded millennial. ?

  9. Aquinnah. You are not dreaded and you are a respectable clear headed and articulate young woman. I have daughters 47 and 44 and 5 grandchildren. My world view is different than yours but the reason I admire you is due to your consistently balanced arguments. I hope you will not be deterred on these pages. A couple of people will blast you for not marching lockstep with them when you point out hypocrisy and fuddled thinking. Best.

    • Thank you very much! I did assume you were older than I am, just because when I talk to my dad, he has many similar views. It’s definitely interesting how our generations shape our perceptions. I appreciate anyone willing to talk out an issue and explore that. I’m seeing what you mean about it being a bit of a tough crowd at times. ? I will still try to join in when I can because these things matters. Have a great Sunday, Andrew.

  10. Gutsy, so you say you hate Pence policies but not the man. So you wouldnt vote for him even though he is moral. Jimmy Carter was/is a moral man but his policies to me were dumb. You folks keep talking about morality but you wouldnt vote for a moral man whose policies you dont support yet you indict those who vote for a narcissistic low vocabulary man who’s policies we support. Which one is it.? In this case you dont think Trump is moral AND you dont like his policies. Was George Bush the father a moral man? You still didnt vote for him!!!. Save us all the nonsense. You liked Bill Clintons policies and he was a serial adulterer and you voted for him. Try to navigate this one carefully or as dondondon would say try ”to slither” your logic to explain you animus. Your next line of defense is that some immorality is worse than other immorality or as Jackie would say ”Biden is a million times better” A million really? You hated Anthony Scalia as you hate Kavanagh as you hate Gorsuch as you hate Pence and you hated Bush. You hate moral men if they don’t aspire to your ideology. You hated Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan but you loved FDR who trusted Stalin.

    • Don’t make things up, Andrew, saying who hated whom, although it’s not clear who your vitriol is against in this latest post of yours. Speaking of hatred, you are the one who declared Gandhi, of all people, (and I am no fan of Gandhi) is in hell because he didn’t worship your god as his savior. I wish I had just made that up as easily as you make things up, but you actually wrote that about Gandhi on these pages. Stooping to lying and making untrue assumptions about the people who comment here makes your view worthless. You accuse me of hyperbole, and yet look at what you just wrote.

    • Andrew, do you agree that all those Republicans who disagree with the president are “human scum?” (As trump claims.) It’s a yes or no question. I was a lifelong Republican until 2016. Voted for Guiliani for mayor of NYC – twice. Voted for H.W. Bush. Is Barbara Bush human scum? Colin Powell, the same? Now, you were saying something about hate. Please answer the question. It’s not an attack; it’s a question. No sermons or equivocation, please. Just give it a go.

      • No I do not agree and Trumps comment is unwise as are many of his comments. I have repeatedly said on this post that I do not hold Trump as a role model for anyone. I like his policies because they align with my world view.

  11. A: I did not reveal my voting record to you; you’ve now certainly cheapened your argument by making these assumptions.
    B: I would not vote for Pence because I do not support regressive social policies and I believe strongly in the separation of church and state.
    C: I’m allowed to like a person’s policies and not their character. They won’t get my vote
    D: I’m allowed to like a person’s character and not all of their policies. They might get my vote – depends on the choices . See: Sanders, Warren.
    E: That civility crank – might need a little lube.

    • Gutsy we already have separation of Church and State in this country. What regressive social policies has Pence passed. We have Roe/Wade, We have same sex marriage. Pence I assume is allowed his personal opinions and I hope you agree he is mild mannered and polite. There you have it, you dont like his policies and that of course is your right. I like Trumps policies but dont like his manner. So you want character and policy and I havent seen that in a long time from the Dems. Please dont tell me Hilary had good character.

  12. Jackie I said that Gandhi was an idiot. I could have softened it a bit and said he was not a clear thinker. He drank his own urine every day and told the Jews to march into the Gas chambers as pacifists. I call that dumb. As for his going to hell, only God judges that but it is very clear that the Bible tells us that Jesus is the only way to heaven and salvation. The Bible tells us that, not Andrew. So no, I dont make things up. You should inform yourself of what Evangelicals believe and where they get those beliefs. You are free to reject it all of course but there are many of us out there and we are not all stupid. Would you care to match your resume against mine? You dont know how to deal with someone you disagree with–you simply attack them if they dont march lockstep with you and you show yourself for what you are on these pages.

    • Andrew– nothing in your last comment about Gandhi is true.
      Why, George, do you allow Andrew to consistently spread lies about people who have spread the virtues of compassion and peace ?

      • dondondon. Everything I said about Gandhi is true but you dont want it to be true. Margaret Sanger visited with Gandhi in 1935 and was shocked about what he told her about sex and contraception for example”it should be resisted’ and sex only for procreation” .Dondondon I have been to India several times and traveled extensively and visited the Gandhi museum during one of my weaker moments near Delhi. Its all there. You are big on facts dondondon but some you dont like you freeze out of your mind.

        • Andrew, let’s just stick to one “fact ” for a monument. While I can find all sorts of references to Gandhi drinking his urine– most notably for some reason on right wing sites that still pedal the idea that Obama was born in Kenya, that Hillary is gay, and trump is the greatest president we have ever had. But, I cannot find any verifiable accounts from any reputable source that it is actually true. Could you provide that please ?
          Second– if you bother to delve into it, there are many people who do this for various reasons, mostly medically related. So what if he did ?
          One thing for sure, is that drinking your own urine is much healthier and more beneficial to the environment that eating steak.
          I look forward to your proof.

  13. B4Jaws. I stand by my story and I dont think Newsweek is a good source of counter argument. Are you going now to deny he told Jews to march into gas chambers passively? Gandhi never support modernization or mechanization for India. He considered it a fundamentally violent and destructive form of life.Gandhi believed Indian women who were raped lost their value as human beings. He argued that fathers could be justified in killing daughters who had been sexually assaulted for the sake of family and community honor. Gandhi also waged a war against contraceptives, labelling Indian women who used them as whores.
    Gandhi’s behavior around females would eventually become very, very odd. He took to sleeping with naked young women, including his own great-niece, in order to “test” his commitment to celibacy. Would you like more? I can go deeper and less attractive.

  15. Aquinnah. Ok I get it. anyone but Trump, but:The major democratic party candidates announced themselves to be for sharper higher taxes, banning private health insurance, the green new deal, free college, complete student loan forgiveness free health insurance for illegal immigrants and functionally open borders. They will ban fossil fuels and fracking and one candidate said that religious institutions should lose their tax free status if they dont support same sex marriage. Extreme on abortion, –no limits ever and support identity politics which sees not one country but a thousand warring tribes endlessly rewarded for being at each others throats. Then you have the squad with their Leninist insistence that you do it their way or get flattened. Democratic candidates speak of oil, gas and coal the way Churchill spoke of fascism. Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have vowed “on my first day” to ban fracking, fossil fuel development on federal land, and offshore drilling. Is this what you want?

    • Andrew, yes and no. In terms of policies, I have a really hard time voting for either party because my thoughts are so split. It’s always going to be an uncomfortable compromise. When I said push anyone forward other than Biden, it’s because we absolutely need someone to oppose Trump who has no history of misbehaving and dismissing his own conduct. That’s the insanely low standard we’re working with, unfortunately, before issues can even be considered. After that point, it’s complicated. I am skeptical of some plans. Wish I had a better answer.

      As for the Squad, almost everything AOC says makes me cringe.

    • Blatant falsehoods, misleading, fear-mongering statements, and or painting so wide a swath it is laughable:

      “The major democratic party candidates announced themselves to be for sharper higher taxes” [UNTRUE:
      A more progressive tax structure provides more services and reduce economic inequality by making sure that the wealthiest Americans pay the highest amount in taxes. Where are Trump’s tax returns? For example, my taxes have not gone done under Trump. I pay more than much wealthier people who get loopholes]

      “banning private health insurance” [UNTRUE: Most of the candidates want medicare for all, while those who still want private insurance can still have it.]

      “free college” [UNTRUE: Democratic candidates have contrasting views]

      “student loan forgiveness” [Again UNTRUE because there are constrasting views falling into 2 major camps, with moderate candidates wanting to help with student debt and make college more affordable–not free, not loan forgiveness.]

      “free health insurance for illegal immigrants” [UNTRUE and repeats and spreads the racist fear-mongering lie that the pathological liar, Donal Trump said https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/aug/01/donald-trump/fact-checking-trump-ad-democrats-health-care-immig/%5D

      “and functionally open borders” [UNTRUE: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/12/759442642/immigration-where-2020-democratic-candidates-stand-on-border-crossings-and-more%5D

      “They will ban fossil fuels” [A BLATANT LIE: ‘Confusing’ a ban on fossil fuel exports, which not all dem candidates want, with banning ALL fossil fuels is purposely and outrageously false.]

      “and fracking” [UNTRUE: “The moderate candidtes want it limited or regulated.]

      “and one candidate said that religious institutions should lose their tax free status if they dont support same sex marriage” [UNTRUE: ORourke isn’t even running any more so why be so hyterical about something that is no longer true]

      ” Extreme on abortion, –no limits ever” [laughably UNTRUE]

      ” and support identity politics which sees not one country but a thousand warring tribes endlessly rewarded for being at each others throats” [UNTRUE: Cultspeak, fear-mongering based on thin air]

      “Then you have the squad with their Leninist insistence that you do it their way or get flattened” [UNTRUE: A Leninist squad is running for president?]

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