Calling out the cyberbullying

52

To the Editor:

On Wednesday, Martha’s Vineyard witnessed a demonstration requesting the local government to relax the restriction they have levied upon the work conditions of local businesses. Although I support the efforts of the organizers and their reasonable request, I probably wouldn’t have participated. However, my laziness was interrupted by hate, cyberbullying, and slander directed at the organizers. Before COVID (BC) these tactics would be called out as wrong, intolerable, and un-American.

George W. Bush once stated, “you’re either with us or against us.” That logic produced two-generational wars “on terrorism.” It appears that this same narrative has been perpetrated on the people. We have been asked to accept one narrative and only one narrative. You are with us, “in this together” or against us “deviating outside your quarantine.”

Since when has asking the authorities to relax their restrictions on workers been labeled as; “against us,” insult to nurses, un-American, a threat to the community, and idiotic? Some of the more zealous people have even demonized the organizers on social media, Facebook “hate,” cyber-bullying, and calling for boycotting their products.

It should be understood that a recovery of the economy must begin at some time. Our start for a reasonable and safe economic recovery is being delayed by intolerable social responses to any request asking for reduced authority. I do not accept that the quarantine must be observed until “we say it is safe” or “we now have a cure.” This is not a viable path to follow.

The protesters are asking for the authorities to unchain the creative, economic, and production power of those in quarantine. They are asking local government to restore the peaceful cooperation within our local commerce that existed BC. The victims of COVID are not limited to the symptoms of the virus. There are others suffering economic despair.

Both the protesters and I believe a safe reopening will help to reduce the economic suffering that many of our residents are experiencing. I fear that some of the “lucky,” those that have maintained an adequate income or enough savings to get through the COVID-19 shutdown, are insensitive to the hardships facing the “unlucky.”

We are asking our towns to at least explore alternative ways to restore our local economy. This is the basis of the protest, asking them to return authority back to our businesses and residents so that they can lead and share in a safe recovery. After all, in a pre-COVID world, the problem-solvers were celebrated and the cowering compliant were tolerated.

Thank you hospital workers – you flattened the curve.

I understand the levels of stress put on the medical community must be mitigated for us to be released. It appears that the medical community has reached that stage. The original intent of the policy was not to eradicate the virus. It was to buy time for the hospital system, to flatten the curve, for them to function properly.

They succeeded in this objective. Our hospitals have been servicing patients that have become infected, and have continued with their normal operations of caring for those who are acutely ill, who suffer from accidents, chronic illnesses, or are victims of violence. They have done yeoman’s work to prepare our community for the COVID-19 crisis.

In other words, the medical system is functioning very nicely. The hospitals are functioning enough so that we can start to get back to our lives. The hospital has given us assurances that effective treatments are available to everyone and the hospital capacity is not close to being exhausted.

They succeeded in the “flatten the curve” mission. Their mission has never been to wait for a cure.  Let us return to the social spaces of work, play, and live with one another like we did once upon a time.

There are trade-offs when plans to reopen the economic system are at stake. The peaceful cooperation of our resources is ready and willing to solve problems. The USA has always looked to the entrepreneur for discoveries to improve the human condition. Now is the time to create expectations that will guide the local businesses and entrepreneurs in the desired direction.

Free people are not helpless people. We will adjust, we will adapt, and we will take on the responsibility of being architects of our own fate. Society must be judged by how well it minimizes human suffering; physically, emotionally, and economically. It is time to allow the stakeholders to initiate the activities and opportunities that will promote recovery.

Am I foolish to hope that the truth of reality will be our guiding light and not the politics of the state and those compliant with their narrative? Critics will continue to use this crisis to slander true liberalism and libertarianism. Maybe we all would be better served by embracing the fact that if freedom is allowed to flourish it will provide answers in these turbulent times.

I hope that my presence, at that rally, will help to neutralize the viciousness of the social media clique, fear of the unknown, a corrosive mob mentality, and the divisiveness of the COVID narrative.

Let’s begin our return to normal!

Russ MacDonald
Oak Bluffs

52 COMMENTS

  1. “Since when has asking the authorities to relax their restrictions on workers been labeled as; “against us…”

    • Since relaxing restrictions too early can get people who disagree with you killed. Since these requests usually come with denial of vital facts about the virus’s severity. It’s still your right to ask, but there’s no reason to physically gather to do so.

    “…insult to nurses…”

    • Since health care employees across the country started dying while trying to treat this virus. Since they started begging us to take every precaution possible, so as not to overwhelm understaffed and understocked hospitals. Do your part. Theirs is harder.

    “…un-American…”

    • America boasts about being compassionate and standing up for the underdogs, but now some want to throw away the needs of the elderly and the sick because they’re inconvenient.

    “…a threat to the community…”

    • Gatherings can transmit the virus. It follows you home, and you can give it to someone else. Rinse, lather, repeat.

    “…and idiotic?”

    • I’ve been trying to erase certain words from my vocabulary for a long time. Stupid, idiot, mindless… I realize these are divisive. They do nothing but put people on the defensive, so normally I don’t use them. Enter: these protests.

    I’m sorry, but I can’t think of a word more fitting than stupid when we ARE on the verge of reopening some businesses, as soon as Monday. Yet some decided it’s the right time to throw caution to the wind. Don’t you see that if you truly care about the right to work, any call to gather in groups jeopardizes our progress on that front?

    As for your comments about the current state of health care… Mind blown. People with serious conditions unrelated to COVID have lost access to their routine visits in many places. Surgeries were canceled. Treatments were canceled. There are articles talking about how the non-COVID critically ill are the unspoken victims of this crisis. Just the other day, our hospital CEO had to state that they cannot take on more maternity patients. She has also been smart and outspoken about local construction opening up too soon. A doctor from MVH wrote a great letter to the paper about what to expect and what is needed of us, and none of what he said matches your take. At all.

    Worry less about online comments and more about the harm of false claims. Unless you just managed to accidentally overlook all the professional input that disagrees with your assessment. I will take the word of the CEO and her employees over a random citizen any day.

  2. Could someone tell this guy that the curve is not flattened? The numbers are going up, 16 or 17 confirmed, and now 4 island people are hospitalized- one on the island and 3 in Boston. And since this person asks if he is being foolish, be sure to let him know what is so obvious. I’d do it, but his profound ignorance makes me too angry and I’ll be accused of cyber bullying. When you call idiotic suggestions IDIOTIC, it is not slander. Truth is truth, even when you don’t like it. Be best!

    • Hi Jackie! I respect your views but I have a simple request. There are just a few Jackie’s (i know of) on the Island andI would so appreciate it if you could include your last name so that there is no confusion as to who is speaking their views. I had a friend ask me today – “Is that you onMV Times?”
      I am all for truth but we each have our own that we may wish to express or not. Thank you so much for your consideration. Be safe and be well! Warmly,
      Jackie Kane

      • Hi Jackiekane–
        i understand your sentiment to use your full name.
        I am don Keller , from Vineyard Haven.
        I am sure there are many people named Don on the island.
        I occasionally put my name up there when someone like you feels the need to identify a commentator. Most people I know know who dondondon12 is.
        I have even put my e mail address out here a number of times.
        dk dondondon @ gmail . com
        But, I respect privacy. The anonymity of a commentor here is obvious .
        I once used the last name of Andrew in a post ( after he used my last name in a previous post) he was furious—
        To be real, his or her real first name might not even be “Jackie” .
        I could have signed up as frankfrankfrank, after all .
        Would that mean my real name was Frank? No.
        And if I may say it, if your friends suspect you are “Jackie” I would take it as a compliment.

        • Thanks, Don. And jackiekane, if you don’t want anyone to think that my views have been written by you, simply say it is not you– which you have now publicly done. Thank you for the good wishes. The very same to you.

      • You seem to be more focused on who is posting than on what is posted.
        Why is who posted it important to you?

  3. Bullying? Where have you been? Welcome to the USA!

    The original post I saw in IT was a direct copy of the image being spread by pro-trump hard core conservative right-wing organizations(with only minor alterations). It was posted by a respected member of our community (the owner of the Black Dog Cafe). It made people angry because it was a slap in the face to all the sacrifice and hardship that all of us Islanders had to endue up until this point. The flyer that was posted stated, “The cure can’t be worse than the disease”. This nonsensical string of words suggests that it’s not worth the effort.

    Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but our country is deeply divided. Our POTUS is a bully. He shouts insults daily at reporters and enemies. He spreads copious amount of misinformation and when he’s not doing that he’s bragging about how great he is. The depth of incompetence we have in the White House is deeper than the Mariana’s Trench. So if you want to have a protest that is being promoted by, who most reasonable people see as a corrupted source of information, then you should expect a backlash.

    Finally, as many people pointed out, the Black Dog is open for curbside delivery and while many businesses were suffering, they are in fact able to stay open. This coupled with the fact that the Island was already planning to start opening up again this coming Monday make you a obvious target for the frustration everyone is feeling right now.

    • Just this afternoon (Sunday) POTUS ranted that reporters should return their “Nobles.” After collective head-scratching we think that (1) meant Nobel; (2) he confused the Nobel with the Pulitzer; folks who outed the Russian plans to disrupt the 2016 elections were just vindicated by the (Republican) senate subcommittee. So “depth of incompetence” has taken yet another steep step down.

      • Ugh……That weird creature currently occupying the White House is the longest and most epic face-palm in the history of the Universe.

  4. I am staying sheltered in place because nothing I do is important enough to endanger myself or others, even if the probability is low. But that does not hold for everyone. At the onset of this pandemic, there was not time or data to differentiate between dangerous and minimally dangerous practices, therefore “essential” was the acid test. We have had many weeks to find out how our medical community has held up and time to make plans to open up on a phased basis by differentiating between high risk and low risk activity. I support a plan that does that slowly with benchmarks to slow down, go back or accelerate. This is what the Vineyard protestors are asking for. They are not the same as some very cavalier people that we have seen on TV. Its not too much to ask that we have a plan and a criteria. There will be more activity than the current level before there is a cure or vaccine. We should have a road map that focuses on risk rating activities and risk mitigating processes. Just shutting down everything until we are 100% sure that there is no risk is unsustainable and will result in people making arbitrary decisions that will be worse than a slow controlled opening.

  5. “Thank you hospital workers – you flattened the curve.” No, we did not flatten the curve. Those who adhered to the value of life by social distancing, either near or far, and by taking appropriate precautions, they esepcailly are helping keep the curve flat.

    • Exactly, Bulikington! The citizens “flatten the curve” by adhering to stay-at-home orders and avoiding getting sick. The medical workers are wonderful, and we cannot thank them enough, but they do not “flatten the curve” — we all do! The curve needs to stay low enough to be within the capability of the existing medical resource which, on the Vineyard at least, has happened. If we foolishly relax the shut down, cases will go up.

      It’s a little thing called science.

  6. It isn’t cyberbullying to point out the protestors were putting lives at risk. Their own and anyone they come in contact with. Your freedoms and rights do not extend to endangering others.

  7. What flattened curve are you exactly referring to? Martha’s Vineyard is part of Massachusetts last time I checked and Massachusetts is one of the world’s hotspots. Sheesh.

  8. These guys decrying “cyber-bullying” are the same people who refer to liberals as “snowflakes”. The irony.

  9. I’ve been here over 25 years and each day it gets more difficult to deal with our so called “woke” community. They are so ill informed yet so self absorbed they know way more than anyone else. The sad part is the majority of us who disagree with them are too frightened to push back. Look what happened to the Black Dog owners. A loud mouthed minority has threatened their livelihood. These are scary times and the virus is the least of our worries.

    • The concept of wokeness is silly. Taking measures to protect people from deadly infection is not. I don’t see what that even has to do with the so-called woke. All it requires is observing the math.

      • This coronivirus is much more deadly than the flu. We will see by how much. The flu killed 61,000 in the 2017-2018 season. Please observe the math.

        “The concept of wokeness is silly.”
        Indeed.

        What is more silly, is that we have not yet conquered the flu.

        We put a man on the moon two/three days prior to the day I was photographed on the steps of the Dukes County Courthouse with Chief Arena’s hand on my head, as I tried to inch closer on my Stingray bike, closer to all the action. Action in the form of the national media. Mary Jo Kopechne had been left to die and this island would never be the same. This was July, 1969. The same day we put a man on the moon. That got all the attention in the papers/networks, as it should. So, we put a man on the moon over 50 years ago, an impossible accomplishment and we can’t even solve the flu! We may have antidotes for the coronavirus??

        FYI- Five days after the drowning, Kennedy recounted the night of the accident and how it unfolded, to all 3 networks. Of course, it made no sense. And the “Man on the Moon” got all the headlines/coverage:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=385&v=zmtsnOKEblg&feature=emb_title

        ”Lost to history: The convergence of the first Moon landing and Chappaquiddick”

        • What does this baloney of placing yourself at the scene next to Chief Arena during the tragic events of Mary Jo Kopechne’s death have to do with the deadliness of the coronavirus, or even of the flu? Is that supposed to impress someone? The old “They put a man on the moon, so why they can’t figure out [fill in the blank] shows how unoriginal your thought process is… and how little you add to any discussion.

          • I respect all opinions posted here; the absurdity matters not.

            “What does this baloney of placing yourself at the scene next to Chief Arena..”

            I used to order a scrumptious bologna sandwich from Coo at the Barbershop Deli.
            He had a nickname for me which included the word baloney. You reminded me of that. Thanks. Wait…are you of the opinion that I should not put this in my post because it is off-topic? 😂

             “Is that supposed to impress someone?”

            There is a psychological term that can be attributed to one thinking that something is impressive when in reality, it is the furthest thing from it.

            “What does this baloney of placing yourself at the scene next to Chief Arena during the tragic events of Mary Jo Kopechne’s death have to do with the deadliness of the coronavirus, or even of the flu?”

            Not much at all. I just tossed it in. 
            Not impressive at all, for anyone but you, by your own revealed admission.

            In 1938 the first flu vaccine came out and we still have not solved influenza. We desperately need to have better results with the coronavirus, obviously.

            I was responding to Aquinnah’s post. Specifically, her words, “observing the math”.

            I’m not sure if I enjoy you, “hanging on my every word”. NUUK NYUK

            I say this in a joking manner. My feeling is that some of us need to lighten up and not take ourselves so seriously.

            Hope this helps. :-^

          • Sorry, Fielding Mellish. Wasn’t sure how else to explain it, will try to be brief in the future.

            That’s all true, Jackie — the total picture is likely worse. I think of the math and science as a weather vane rather than a crystal ball. There are data gaps with new viruses and due to our lack of tests, so we don’t have an exact understanding, but factors are pointing us in the same direction, calling for caution and strategy. I would hope none of this needs saying by now, but every day I see it being downplayed still.

        • This chat gave me an R.E.M. earworm about the moon landing and Andy Kaufman. Now I’m listening to Nightswimming on repeat. Lockdown is wild.

          Regarding the math: I don’t want to dismiss those who have died from the flu. Have always been of the opinion that we lose more people to it each year than we have to. That’s equally tragic. Some — in my experience, those who are not high risk and therefore not worried — aren’t careful about basic hygiene, even when they’re around the vulnerable. Drives me crazy. Maybe going forward, they will be more invested. Then we can save more lives from flu, too. Everyone’s been re-educated lately on best practices. I hope.

          There are many reasons why these diseases aren’t comparable, though. While it’s not a perfect solution, we do have flu vaccines. We can also treat it with oseltamivir and other medications, leading to better outcomes. COVID-19 is proving harder to beat, tricky to medicate, and the list of complications is alarming.

          We are better prepared for the flu because it’s been tracked and studied for so long. Having the supplies needed going into flu season each year allows things to run more smoothly.

          The flu’s R0 is lower than this virus’s, no matter which estimate I’ve come across. For anyone not familiar, this is a measure of transmissibility. Basically, how many others one infected individual can be expected to infect.

          During the 2018-2019 season, 34,200 Americans died from the flu. (I have seen higher estimates on other sites but cannot confirm them, so I’m going to use the CDC figure as an example.) We’ve lost 55,156 to this coronavirus in a shorter time frame. The majority over the course of just one month. A difference of more than 20,000 people over a shorter span is bad enough. But here’s the most important factor that I keep seeing omitted — that’s while we’ve been under lockdown. A completely artificial (though needed) scenario. The flu data was collected over the course of a normal, non-lockdown-y season. Because of that, we will never have a true comparison. Hundreds of millions have been staying home. They would otherwise have been out in the world, leading to billions of person-to-person interactions that we prevented. Just imagine how many would actually have this by now if we hadn’t. It would surpass the 20,000+ flu-COVID gap by a lot. (Even if you use the highest flu fatality estimates for comparison, we may surpass those numbers this week.)

          Now some (not targeting anyone specific here) are using our success to sow more doubt about whether this was all necessary. Even locally. I keep seeing, “We only have 16 cases on the Island, why haven’t we been/why can’t we be at work?”, when the answer is that we have 16 cases BECAUSE we haven’t been at work. The Times reported that interactions were down on the Island by 94%. 94%! So what would happen if we were to “loosen” restrictions too quickly? The very thing protecting us disappears.

          Then there’s the math concerning doctors, nurses, the curve, supplies, affording treatment, burial, and the social impact of every person lost to this, but my hand hurts from typing.

          I feel guilty talking about lives as if they’re numbers. These stats represent real people, but since the public can’t agree on anything, and yet we all have to accept the situation in order to tackle it optimally, I feel compelled to keep directing it back this way. Math should be neutral. When you add up these factors, it becomes obvious why we have approached COVID-19 differently from other diseases.

          • You’re gonna need to shorten these comments up.
            You don’t want Dondondon to have to scold you…

          • Good points, Aquinnah. We do not know how many people have or have had covid-19 because we do not have tests available. We don’t even know the math for an accurate count of deaths because people were dying of the “flu” before we realized it was covid. We also cannot for one moment think that the island has 16 cases without stating that these are the confirmed cases. A few hundred islanders have been tested, out of an estimated 20,000. The hospital says that people (they wont say how many) with symptoms are coming in and sent home to quarantine and selfcare, without ever being tested. We don’t know if symptomatic people on the island number in the tens or in the hundreds. We also don’t know how many people with the disease are asymptomatic. Hard to do reliable math with so many unknowns.

  10. Thank you Russ!
    May I add;
    So, if ones opinions, ideas, needs, or thoughts differ from yours..the answer is shut them down!
    Boycott them! Vilify them!
    Turn on your neighbor! Destroy them!
    Ban and punish dissent???
    Really??

    Don’t allow any protest, gathering, speech, or solutions that you don’t approve!!
    This is still America!
    The Black Dog has the right to express and to protest without being bullied and threatened into silence!!
    Shame on those taking part in this
    disgusting display of attempting to stop the very freedoms that Americans have fought for and died to preserve!

    • Actually, none of that is an American right. As I’ve said, I’m not supporting the boycott. I never do, because it’s always the employees who suffer.

      Still. The right to assemble or express an opinion only protects the opinionee from legal consequences. There is no protection from social consequences. I don’t like seeing anyone vilified for no reason, but look at the factual inaccuracies in this letter. Things that are demonstrably false. That alone is enough to make me understand the frustration some are feeling with these protesters.

      • Aquinnah, you were kind enough to compliment my previous input. If workers are forced back to work, they cannot collect unemployment, and they put themselves and others in their households in danger from interacting with more and more people, virtually none of whom have been tested for coronavirus. My partner and I are each over 80. We will continue to stay away from gatherings of people. We will shop quickly and with masks to pick up grocery and medical essentials. Hopefully we will make it. Hopefully everyone here will make it, but the folks who are putting themselves in harm’s way who are not health care workers, and other essential workers are clearly taking a chance.

        • All true, Sara, and it’s definitely cause for worry on MV. Given the affordable housing troubles, I can’t count how many 20 or 30-something workers live with older relatives or roommates and could expose them. This balancing act between safety and income is more complex than some will face. Wishing you and your partner all the best and hoping our community gets through this together. 🙏🏻 For everyone person who has expressed a selfish view, there are probably ten more making sure the food pantry is stocked or helping to deliver groceries.

    • What is the difference between cyber-bullying and telling someone that you think that they are just plain wrong?

  11. A boycott is a just a form of free speech and isn’t endangering the lives of anyone. Gathering now, against the advice of health professionals and the law, is not free speech. Rights have obligations, and right now most of us are focused on our obligation to protect the entire community by observing some simple rules concerning distancing.

  12. Has Russ had a close family member die of Covid-19, yet?
    That might just change his mind on the advisability of maintaining social distance?
    Maybe not.
    Some people have no regard for human life.

  13. The sky is still falling, the sky is still falling…..This is getting old.
    Things are calming down. time to resume life. wake up and go outside, enjoy the day.
    The hyped overzealous minority has not won the battle to control us. and they won’t.
    See you on the job site (those that actually produce and work for a living. Instead of the takers)

    • You are why no one should trust that tradespeople will follow all the safety guidelines because all it takes is one irresponsible, reckless person in denial. Your attitude is a menace to the community.

  14. For less internet-savvy readers, I though I would offer a clarifying definition: “cyberbullying” is when anybody disagrees with you, online. The more people who disagree with you, the more it is cyberbullying. I hope this clears things up.

      • This is a perfect example. You are disagreeing with me online. This is cyberbullying. Just as hundreds or perhaps thousands of people disagreed in print with the ill-conceived anti-prophylactic demonstration at five corners. And characterized the proponents as ignorant, greedy, willing to ignore medical science if it would make them money, or generally prioritizing dollars over lives. According to Russ Macdonald, whose letter these remarks are in response to, that outpouring of condemnation was cyberbullying. I hope this clears things up and that you will refrain from cyberbullying with me in the future.

        • I totally understand. Some folks would think I am disagreeing with you when I am not!

          Good job.

          :-^

        • Agreed, ascot. I think it’s funny that Russ MacDonald made sure to pepper his letter with digs towards those who feel differently than he does. I feel bullied. 🙃

    • “cyberbullying” is when anybody disagrees with you, online.”

      Sometimes it can seem that way.

  15. To have a demonstration then/now, is ridiculous and should be illegal. Indeed. Any other time is fine.
    However, we must s-l-o-w-l-y and safely get at it. ☮️

  16. The cyber bullying is not much better on these very same MV Times comment section. The persistence of The MV Times in clinging to its policy of permitting anonymous pseudonyms here, creates a forum for irresponsible speech. The bullying nature of these anonymous voices can be seen almost everywhere.
    It was not always this way.
    Back during more responsible stewardship of our “community newspaper”, you were required to use your real verifiable name. I am not sure what happened to that policy. My guess is with the rise of social media and Islanders Talk, a.k.a. the news source for most stories here, there was a desperation to compete with a robust debate. So, open the floodgates to any and all irresponsible voices.
    Having George Brennan edit out objectionable attempts to comment here, hardly provides a transparent, responsible debate. At least on Islanders Talk, there is a responsible Admin for whom reason and responsibiity are meaningful values.
    Expect the MV Times to continue its own policy to harbor cyber bullying as long as it teeters on insolvency.

    • Cyberbullying is a real problem. The backlash against potentially illegal — and most definitely dangerous — rallies is not an example of cyberbullying, though. It’s not harassment to strongly disagree with a plan that endangers public health. That’s mostly what’s been happening in the comments section here, too. Disagreement about the pandemic being dismissed by some. Seems understandable enough given the stakes.

    • As long as I can remember under Doug Cabral’s editorship, anonymous comments have been allowed. I believe there was a short time when bullying and even threats had to be curtailed, so they tried having people use real names, but folks simply used fake email addresses with made-up names, and then anonymity came back. The comments now, under George and Jamie’s moderation, are much more controlled. There’s no bullying. Occasionally someone gets away with something, but it’s generally fair. Besides, I thought you were picking up your marbles when the subscription fee went into effect? I like reading your comments, even when I see through why you’re griping about something. But ease up on the Times. They’re doing a good job and a valuable service. Sometimes running a news story can paint someone in a bad light that stings for a long time. This is a small community and part of the price we all pay is being held accountable for our behavior, even when we make mistakes that lead to some amount of shame or embarrassment. We pick ourselves up and move forward. For instance, do you know how many people have been in the paper’s court report? Best not to hold grudges and best not to damn people for piling on with negative comments when someone or some business does something wrong. It’s how small communities especially function by keeping folks in check. It’s not wrong and it’s not bullying when folks go on about, say, boycotting a business for using racist symbols in advertising, or for promoting behavior that is detrimental to the health of the community. And it’s also not cyberbullying to object, over and over in comments, to drunken police chiefs who break into people’s homes. As far as IT goes, you use a fake name to post there, don’t you, (?) so your objection to anonymity holds no weight here. It’s entirely unfair to say that the Times moderators don’t exercise responsibility and meaningful values. And I say all this as a person who gets censored approximately every 5th comment.

      • Um, Jackie, maybe you are commenting just a bit too often. We do not need your take on every article.

        Am I cyberbullying?

        • Where would the internet be without those who offer nothing to a discussion topic, but like to scold those who do?

    • My response to Thomas about a week ago covering the exact same issue:

      I, for one, am not hiding behind my moniker. I’m hoping you are not of the thought that you are “holier than thou” for displaying your name. That would be extremely telling.
I am not a registered Democrat and would never give my name in this forum. I refuse to lose new business. My many regulars (two 40-year customers/families included) treat me well. They all know how I vote; knew that from the beginning, but once in a while I can use new business.
 * Oh how times have changed. I would never reveal how I vote to a new customer, now.

      Not here, not now…..with all the hate HERE towards one who votes differently. Why would I?


      :-^


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