The success Vineyard Wind achieved Tuesday with the final approval of Vineyard Wind 1, America’s first industrial-scale offshore wind project, became an opportunity for former President Donald Trump to taunt the Vineyard and offshore wind.
“Congratulations to Martha’s Vineyard in Massachusetts,” he said in a statement, “for the privilege they will have in looking at massive windmills that have been approved by the Biden Administration and are being built, in China of course, as part of an extraordinarily large wind farm. Wind is an incredibly expensive form of energy that kills birds, affects the sea, ruins the landscape, and creates disasters for navigation. Liberals love it, but they can’t explain why. In any event, Martha’s Vineyard, an absolutely wonderful place, will never be the same. Good Luck!”
In the past, news organizations have debunked and parodied Trump’s stances on wind energy.
The Associated Press previously compared Trump to Don Quixote, Cervantes’ comedic knight, for alleging wind turbine acoustics are carcinogenic and ascribing other evils to wind energy while cheerleading for coal, “a well-documented cause of health problems.”
Technology and futurism site Gizmodo previously described Trump as having a “personal vendetta” against wind turbines. Both AP and Gizmodo cited Trump’s past battle to halt the installation of 11 offshore wind turbines just off the coast from a golf course he owned in Scotland. Prior to his presidency, Trump took a legal battle over those turbines all the way to the Scottish Supreme Court. He lost. Prior to that decision, Trump went before a Scottish parliamentary committee and described wind turbines as “monstrosities” that in his opinion stood to be “one of the most serious problems that Scotland will have or has had.”
Roughly a year after Trump’s committee appearance, a government survey showed the people of Scotland were twice as likely to back wind power compared to shale gas energy or nuclear energy.
The Washington Post previously described Trump’s litigation in Scotland as a “scorched-earth campaign to block the installation.” The Post reported the litigation “earned him enormous enmity in the area,” and caused Trump to boycott a brand of Scotch whisky. “One prominent local opponent was identified as Scotsman of the year by Glenfiddich Scotch,” the Post reported. “Trump subsequently banned Glenfiddich from his properties.”
I’m guessing that as the fascination with T***p slowly diminishes that this pronouncement like many more that he’s made will turn public favor more towards wind and away from fossil fuels. PS, Andrew, no real need to respond, okay?
Quite the opposite. Statements like these show he is still relevant and one of the smartest and best Presidents our country has ever seen. Where are these built? Are they using slave labor as they do in China for solar panels shipped to this country? What landfills will take these massive structures in 20 years when they are obsolete? The cost of electricity will increase exponentially hurting the working class in Massachusetts. Then again wealthy liberals never really take action that will help the poor working guys and women.
Don’t waste your breath asking the TDS crowd serious questions that require critical thinking, Mr. Axel.
They think whatever their masters tell them to think.
There are a lot of myths here.
First is the turbines, the turbines are GE Haliade-X model, manufactured by GE, HQ’d in Boston, using GE sites.
No they won’t be using child labor to build them.
Since the turbines are offshore, there is no landfill issue. Each of the turbines has a decommissioning plan made before they are installed. When decommissioned, they will be replaced with newer models.
No, the cost of electricity will not increase. Offshore wind is cheaper per kwh than onshore fossil fuels. Wind has less environmental impact than fossil fuels.
Stop framing this as a liberal policy debate. This has got to do with engineering and environmental science.
John– I wonder what right wing talk show host suddenly got the “conservatives” to start believing the liberals are wealthy. I have been seeing that quite a bit lately. Just 6 months ago, it seemed conservatives thought liberals were a bunch of lazy freeloaders with no ambition. What changed ?
Also , just for the record , I addressed the issue of the disposal of the blades a while ago.
Just as an example, Goodales pit could take thousands of them. Or since they are inert (think big rocks) they could be placed on the ocean floor as an artificial reef. Sea life would thrive around them.
And what is happening to the waste at the Pilgrim nuclear power plant ?
When obsolete they will be very high value scrap. Only a damn fool would land fill them. Do you see any cars and trucks in landfills, they are mostly made from cheap metals and considerable unrecyclable materials. Wind mills have little in the way of cheap plastics and foams.
Most of the scrap form nuclear will have negative value.
Please quantify the in cost in electricity.
Or is the increase in cost just a talking point that lacks any quantification?
“exponentially” Does that mean it will go up by a factor 2 every year? 1.2? 1.02? Oh well, guy. Do you have any quantification?
Keep pounding the working class drum, stick to the narrative.
If you don’t much care for wealthy liberal it must be truly horrible to live on the Island.
It makes me wonder if you and Andy are a pair.
Why is the MV Times amplifying the rabid ravings of that deranged imbecile?
Because on this one point he is right. It’s blatantly obvious this is a bad bad idea. So obvious that even Trump sees it.
And, he has the guts to speak out about it. Just to be clear I am as far to the left of Trump’s world as you can get. But he is right about Vineyard Wind.
What negatives to you see with Vineyard Wind?
Are you concerned that the fuel costs will spiral out of control?
The technology is immature?
They are too ugly?
Whatever comes out of his mouth, you can bet it’s a lie or at least an uninformed blathering rant. In any case, why give any oxygen to that traitor?
Please list the bad for those of us who do not know.
Please quantify.
Deranged imbecile is putting it mildly. He isn’t capable of being the dog catcher on Nomans.
If the ignorant orange traitor hates it, it’s probably a good idea.
When a disgraced, twice-lost the popular vote, one-term, twice impeached, riot-inciting, lying cheat spews a lot of hot air about wind…. tee-hee.
Shouldn’t comments add something to the debate besides hate??
Like yours does, lol?
No one hates Trump.
They just wish that he was a good President .
If Trump found a way to make money off of Vineyard Wind he have nothing but praise for it. He is so easy to predict.
What Trump doesn’t know is that a tower 100 feet tall at sea level can only see 13 miles. Since these windmills will be 12 miles off shore, you probably will only see the tipy tops.
I guess trump doesn’t have a financial interest in wind power. He is still stuck in the coal age– I do feel sorry for all those hard working coal miners that thought trump would bring coal back, and they would be taken care of if they they got that so called black lung disease — which, according to him, is not caused by coal dust.
Coal is essentially the decomposed remains of dinosaurs and ancient — really ancient –(even more than 6,000 years ago )vegetation. I see some irony in the trumpasaurus way of thinking here.
And Sarah– what do you think the odds are that Andrew won’t comment ??? 🙂
Islanders will never admit when Trump does something or says something that’s correct and he is absolutely right wind energy is very expensive and the benefits are to be determined and they’re certainly not great for the environment. You have to look at the whole process of manufacturing installation decommissioning it’s a complicated subject. Mostly it is feel good for a few people. But one thing we will get and that is higher electric rates and that seems to be what the environmentalist want.
You make valid points and as a lifelong environmentalist I also question this particular wind farm. We will see the beacons at night. It will disrupt commercial fishing, and there are many unanswered questions. That being said they are approved, they will be built.
Whatever the environmental trade-off may be is a question as Bob rightly points out. But what really does concern all of us is the cost. Already our electrical cost is in the stratosphere. The Vineyard is an island and delivery costs about equal the cost of electrical production making a serious impact on housing, and hence affordable housing.
If I could have one wish granted in the legislature it would be for a bill to reduce the cost to the Cape and especially the islands as a result of installing these wind turbines. The MVC should review this as a Development of Regional Impact as it is certainly impacting our economy and environment. Discovering the actual costs associated with production and delivery of this source of power and trying to estimate the impact on rentals, businesses, and homes is an important consideration that seems to have been skipped. If we are to receive this power it should be at a far lower cost than our present costs. If not, it will be a permanent burden and the time to do this study was in the planning stages, but we can still request it. If we cannot mitigate the costs it will adversely affect our already super high costs of living. Fair is fair. Find a way to reduce the expense.
https://aquaticbiosystems.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2046-9063-10-8#:~:text=The%20major%20environmental%20concerns%20related,of%20contaminants%20from%20seabed%20sediments.
Bob, please quantify your claims.
Wind energy may or may not be a blessing, but that’s not really the issue here. Carla Cooper’s comment is exactly on point.
Trump is right on this one. Never thought I’d say it, but as far as Vineyard Wind goes I agree with him 1000%. HUGE mistake. I am disgusted by this development.
Remember: there is just as much corporate greed in the GREEN TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY as anyplace else, and just as much unconsciousness and disrespect for Mother Nature.
And, apparently, disrespect for the significant portion of Island voters who voted for Donald Trump.
How about holding the gratuitous dissing and ad hominems and stick to the issues?
Please list the mistakes of windmills.
Let’s not just think about the short term. Consider the bigger picture. A significant part of the Greenland ice sheet is approaching a tipping point. The Greenland Ice Sheet is roughly three times the size of Texas. Greenland has been steadily losing ice for decades, at a rate of about 500 gigatons per year since 1999. Greenland’s annual ice loss could increase sea levels by up to 5 inches by 2100 — unless drastic steps are taken.
Under continued climate warming, the Greenland ice sheet will pass a threshold if summertime meltwater runoff outweighs winter snowfall, resulting in sustained surface mass loss. Assuming that future sea level rise is to be curbed, the results underscore the need for a rapid stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations.
The way to curb greenhouse gas concentrations is to reduce the amount of greenhouse gases emitted. The reason for building a wind farm is to reduce the amount of gases emitted. The reason for building a wind farm is to reduce the effects of sea level rise in the future. 5 inches of rise would threaten several cities on the US coastline.
Data source: Live Science, Geophysical Research
https://www.livescience.com/greenland-ice-loss-threshold-2055.html
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020GL090471
Mr. Murphy, wind is winning because it is cheaper than coal, natural gas + certainly nuclear. By Lazard, levelized cost of energy comes in at 2.9-3.8 cents per kWh, wind 2.6-5.4 cents per kWh, nuclear 12.9-19.8 cents per kWh, coal 6.5-15.9 cents per kWh, peaking natural gas 15.1-19.8 cents per kWh, gas combined cycle 4.4-7.3 cents per kWh. Figures for 2020, link = https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and-levelized-cost-of-storage-2020/ So, wind + solar cheaper then everything else except energy efficiency.
Winning a slow, ponderous race. How long will it take to make solar a viable replacement for the fossil fuels? No one knows. The guesses are without analysis.
Naushon Island knows.
The ROI on their solar install is coming in at eight years.
When they started the project diesel was at $4.00 a gallon.
The US has been installing significant solar for 27 years.
The 1984 solar install in California is still producing 361 mega-watts today.
Europe has been installing 450 kW offshore windmills for 22 years.
There is no shortage of analysis.
Please read the Lazard study again and note the $86 cost for offshore wind cost generation far more expensive than large scale solar and about equal to natural gas. This is in footnote 2. But also, this study as far as I know does not include transmission cost. Normal transmission cost for all sources of power on Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket are extraordinarily high and approximately equal to the entire mix of energy production as you can read on your bill. This makes even rooftop solar competitive. But if you add in damage to fishing, bright lights in the nighttime sky which will be visible, vessel hazards, de-commissioning costs, construction and maintenance infrastructure and add it all together it is not as simple as it seems and especially if you are looking at land based costs as opposed to offshore costs as noted in the Lazard study footnote 2 you are referring to. So, it is still an open question, and one we should ask our MVC to study this as a DRI. What is the actual cost accounting for all factors including transmission and will it increase our cost of power or lower it? And if it does lower it by how much actually and if so given all the other factors is it really worth it? Also, you need to calculate building Co2 costs as they pertain to actual Co2 runaway non-stoppable extinction level trajectory which new studies indicate 2030 as the year we would need to be able to reverse our greenhouse gas emissions and not 2050 as most advisories target and so the construction impact on Co2 alone may be a reason to not proceed with this plan if a study were to include factual up to date emissions reduction projections based on actual data and not wishful thinking. And if it is more costly, and I suggest it could very well be, then if it impacts costs of rents, and housing, what will be the impact on our affordability for housing? This is a major question mark as well.
High tension transmission costs for sea buried cables and towers are about equal. For towers you have to maintain the right of way and they are subject to more weather damage. Safe and sound underground, or in the sea bed.
As to the operating costs of transmission the the wind turbines will be twice as close to the island as the nearest fossil fuel plant. Transmission losses are I squared R. In this case this case R is miles. The I squared loss is a function of the cost of copper at the time of installation.
Do you have any reliable numbers on the expected increase in cost of electricity on the Island with the wind turbines?
I admit I do not understand or know enough to be for or against this project. I DO know that agreeing with a proven lying conman on any issue diminishes your argument of all legitimacy. You can be pro this project without telling people how you agree with a disgraced ponzi guy 1000%. Argue on the project’s merits, not because a loser idiot says so. Even a broken old and stupid clock that doesn’t know noon from midnight is correct twice a day.
Sorry, meant to write that “You can be ANTI this project without….”
If you don’t know anything about the project, why are you commenting here?
This article is about the lying conman Trump’s snipes. The comments under the article, including mine, on what this article is actually about— his sniping— are more appropriate to the subject than what the scolds have to say to me.
Also, did not say I didn’t know anything about this project. I said I don’t know enough—-to decide if it will do more good than harm. When you’re scolding someone, don’t make things up simply to scold.
You don’t speak to the subject of the story. Unfortunately you just have hatred in your heart for a President who did so much good for our country. I don’t have hatred for Joe Biden, just sadness. How his family let him be manipulated into running for President in his condition is appalling.
The subject of this story is Trump’s hot air spewing. To be clear, a President inciting a deadly isurrection after months of falsely claiming that he won the election he lost by a lot, both by the electors and popular votes, was not “good for our country”. Anything he says now is worthless rot, and anyone who sticks up for this traitor’s lies is not a good American. Your “sadness” for Joe Biden couldn’t be more off-topic.
Please list the good that Trump has done for our country.
Please use facts and figures, not his narrative.
What is Biden’s condition other than being a life long stutterer?
Are you faulting him for failing to puke out meaningless word salad?
(How about 100,000 covid deaths max?)
No one has manipulated Biden into running for President.
Like Trump it has been a life long dream.
Biden is a team player, Trump is a one man cacophony.
Appalling people support Trump.
The sadness is the fat old man holed up at Mar-A-Lago.
With the clear majority of Americans thinking him the fool.
But remember that he did get 10,000,000 more votes in 2020 than in 2016. So what? He did not get enough to win.
I’m not expecting to see an article in the Martha’s Vineyard Times about what Trump thinks about something and I question the need for it.
We need it, we need to keep reminding ourselves that we had a gasbag for President.
Never again.
Don Keller, what is your financial interest in Vineyard Wind? What about the impact to our fisheries? No one can answer that question, because they don’t know, it is a global experiment in our back yard. Martha Magee you are spot on, thank you.
Why not check over to Cuttyhunk and see if their wind generator was worthwhile for the island.
I think you’ll find it was not.
This all has nothing to do with Trump,
just good old common sense evaluation.
Been there done that.
The wind turbine on Cuttyhunk went in over 40 years ago, it was donated. No one donated a grid interface that would work for any period of time. The finally got tired of looking at something that was useless and cut it down.
If you want to see a Dukes County alternate energy success story look at Naushon. They are near battery replacement time, they are considering adding some wind to reduce battery cycling. When the sun goes down the wind comes up. When the sun goes down electricity consumption goes up.
Penikese Island is 100% solar, electrical and hot water, the hot water is more problematic.
Who cares what the idiot Trump thinks?
Even idiots can be right sometimes.
Malcolm X:
“I’m interested in the truth, and I don’t care who says it.”
Obviously over 75 million that voted for him care what he thinks and believe he was best for this country. Incredibly, the hate and the name calling goes on.
The assumption that one is supposed to respect those who support(ed) Trump, simply because there are/were many supporters, is incorrect. Respect is earned, not demanded. Why on earth should supporters of the traitor who instigated the deadly Jan 6 insurrection against our government be respected and not held accountable for their traitorous, anti-American (and racist) views? By the end of Trump’s one term, after he failed to win the election but repeatedly lied and tried to cheat his way into a second, unearned term, if there were still millions who looked to this evil conman as someone who “helped our country”, these folks can expect any deserved disdain they get from decent Americans who abhorred his Big Lie. Supporting a traitor to our constitution is unworthy of any respect, ever, and I don’t care how large that ignorant, un-American minority is. Trump lost because the majority of Americans are decent and abide by our Constitution, and we wanted to be rid of his turmoil, lies, and cons forever. Reading any opinion from him about the island is reason enough to remind folks of all the divisive rhetoric and damage that loser brought to our country, and to how he damaged our world reputation. America lost the respect from the world under Trump. Those who still support him anyway will never have my respect because they don’t deserve it. He was, at best, an embarrassment, and normal people don’t want to hear his opinions on anything.
Yes, Trump has made hate a national pastime.
He just won’t stop his name calling.
Where can I get an application for Dogcatcher on Nomans ?
I’m quoting what Elise LeBovit had to say on this subject when it came around again a few months back – because it’s the wisest thing anybody has said thus far.
“Has anyone asked the whales how they feel about it?”
Can I get an application for assistant dog catcher? It sounds like a lower pressure job.
The job is 7/24, but you can do it with your eyes closed.
Trump is right with gas at a $1 a gallon wind mills are damn ugly.
At $10 a gallon they are a thing of beauty.
I spend some time at Mass Maritime, I find their wind mill to be very soothing.
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