Ehud Neor, a graduate of Martha’s Vineyard Regional High School in the 1970s, currently lives with his family in Nitzan in Israel, a community near the city of Ashkelon, and not far from the Gaza border.
He says that his grandchildren have been sleeping in a bomb shelter during the nights since Saturday’s attacks from Hamas; there have been bomb warnings routinely, on average about twice a day, and he knows of many in the community who have lost family. Neor said that his daughter was recently on a trip to a pharmacy when the missile warnings went off, and she was forced to take cover by getting out of the car and lying on a flat surface. Israel’s Iron Dome system was able to intercept that specific missile attack, Neor said, but the feeling of terror is still there.
“We’ve been through bombings and rockets before. You get used to it,” Neor said during a recent interview over Zoom with The Times, from his home in Nitzan. But the attacks and bombings from Hamas on Saturday are different: “This is our worst nightmare.”
The New York Times reports that the death toll in both countries has surpassed 2,000 people in total, and Israel has gathered 300,000 troops to respond.
Many in the Jewish community here on the Vineyard, like Neor, are watching in horror; many are feeling hopeless as the events continue to unfold in Israel and Palestine.
On Wednesday morning, the Martha’s Vineyard Hebrew Center held a prayer service where a few dozen gathered online to pray, sing, share their grief, and listen to guidance from Rabbi Caryn Broitman.
Broitman said during the service that many Jews in the Island community have friends or family in Israel, and are likely carrying with them pain and sorrow that the rest of the Vineyard community may not understand.
“We want to create a space where we are all sharing that so we can help each other and connect and share prayers,” Broitman said during Wednesday’s prayer. “We pray for all those held captive. We pray for their freedom and their safety. A prayer of comfort for the hundreds of funerals happening across Israel; for the people who are going to funerals, may they be comforted that our hearts are with them and are breaking with them.”
A number of Islanders shared what they have been thinking and feeling following Saturday and the ongoing attacks. One in attendance shared that a base commander he had worked with while in Israel was murdered in the attacks. One said that the family they’ve connected with have been safe, but she was struck at how grateful they were knowing that other congregations throughout the world are praying for the people of Israel. Another congregant shared that a family member in Israel can’t leave her home without a knife for fear of being abducted.
On Friday, the Hebrew Center will hold an interfaith prayer service at 5:30 pm that’s open to the public.
“The Island community has really come together in the past when the Jewish community has been grieving,” Broitman said at Wednesday’s prayer service. “I know they will on Friday as well. I think that’s a great comfort after these massacres.”
Ed Charter, a real estate agent in Vineyard Haven, told The Times that he has many family members in Israel, including a brother. Waking up to the bombings is similar to what many with ties to Israel felt on Saturday morning. At first it was panic, to make sure everyone in his family was OK.
He said that so far, his family has been safe. They live in the northern part of Israel that was not directly attacked by Hamas. But he says that everyone in Israel knows someone who has lost someone in the attacks. Their 13-year-old niece had classmates who are either missing or confirmed dead, after a concert where the Associated Press reports that more than 250 people died during an attack.
There’s also fear that the war could expand further in the north. Hezbollah, a militant group in Lebanon, has already launched rockets at Israel.
Since Saturday, Charter has broken down at times and come to tears. For him, it’s senseless brutality.
As the days progressed since Saturday, it’s also the unknown that scares Charter. He has two nephews who have been called into the military, including one nephew who is a captain. Charter said that the captain is almost definitely being sent into Gaza for a ground invasion.
Ed’s son, Seth Charter, is developing a GoFundMe site in order to raise funds for the Israeli infantry. Charter says that because so many reserves have been called in, the army doesn’t have enough resources, including helmets and bulletproof vests. They hope to raise money to help outfit the reserves. The Charter family has also contributed to an online fund through charidy.com: bit.ly/SOI_donations.
Charter says he feels helpless following the attack, a feeling that likely many have on the Vineyard. He wants Vineyarders and people beyond to know what his family and others in Israel have experienced. He said that as Americans, we’ve become desensitized to bombings and natural disasters that happen across the world. The number of people dying become just words, he said. “But in this case here, they say there is six degrees of separation. In Israel, it’s one degree of separation. Everyone knows everybody.”
In a tragedy like this, he says, everyone knows someone who had family or friends that lost someone in Israel.
Iran’s fingerprints are all over the invasion of Israel by Hamas terrorists. Iran is the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world and has been supporting Hamas (and Hezbollah) for years. A lead story in Monday’s WSJ told us that officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps “had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions.” We are now looking at a two front war that might expand to a three front war. Israel is fighting for it’s life.
We should remember that it was President Obama who pushed the Iran Nuclear deal that was wildly unpopular here and in Israel. He also released billions of dollars to the theocracy. President Biden just signed a deal to release another $6 billion to Iran. Those funds must be frozen and we in the West must wake up to the reality that Russia, Iran, China and North Korea are united in their efforts to challenge and ultimately defeat the US and our democrat allies. Iran has made no secret of its desire–and intent–to wipe Israel off the map. Are we up for the challenge facing us?
Mr. Robb,
I concur. The Obama/Biden continuing regime has given to the Iranian mullahs north of $150 billion, enough to fund years of war and terror with sophisticated weapons gleaned from Kabul and Kiev.
I don’t care if the principle and interest of that amount could be argued belongs to them. What sane person, what sane nation would have returned such wealth to Nazi Germany during WW II unless that nation were active collaborators in the genocide?
The proximate terrorists in Israel are Hamas. The ultimate ones are Obama and Biden.
John– If you think Obama and Biden are the ultimate
terrorist, perhaps you should get some therapy for your
severe case of BDS, along with Peter.
You have both lamented my case of TDS when
I simply say the man has been indicted on 91
felony counts, and is being investigated for multiple
fraudulent activities. I am mentioning facts—
Show us where either Obama or Biden has committed
a terrorist act, or been accused of one, or is
being investigated for one—- I know–
there are too many to list– come on— ONE !
JUST ONE –verifiable, credible accusation of
any terrorist act committed by either of these men.
I get sick of your ignorant lies.
Come on— Show me something and we can
have a debate—
Otherwise — take your fake and inflammatory
lies to storm trooper, infowars or rumble.
They will suck it all up and amplify the echo chamber.
I have noticed that the maggots that are Patriot Front
haven’t responded to my challenge to debate them
publicly or privately.
Yeah, you can keep spewing your dishonest rhetoric
I will keep challenging you. Put something real up.
Don,
I am just following the money, and those who handed it over. You are free to connect your own dots. If a terrorist (whether an individual or a terrorist state) commits atrocities using the resources provided to them by another party, are not both parties complicit in the terror? Particularly when the chants of Death to America and Death to Israel ring out in harmony in Iran? And in Gaza? And before you give me the baloney about that amount of cash being used for “humanitarian purposes” in Iran, we insult our intelligence if either of us believes that would be the ultimate use of those resources.
you’re sounding more and more like Biden everyday
“The Obama/Biden continuing regime has given to the Iranian mullahs north of $150 billion” ?
US Taxpayer money?
Money paid on account for selling oil?
Who is the rightful owner of the $150 billon?
What’s the documentation to back up the $150 billion? That’s either a heck of a damning bit of evidence or a heck of a whopper. It can’t be both!
Just wondering — do any of you have any clue about Middle Eastern history before 1948?
This is God’s fault.
Or is it Gods?
A quick correction to the NYT report of deaths. While ordinary Palestinians are paying a high price for the being led by the genocidal cult Hamas, it is important to note that whatever your politics, there is only one country, not two, as the plural is used. The territories of the West Bank and Gaza do not consist of a country yet, although most of us hope someday for a peace in which there are two. Be reminded that one obstacle to this peace is the leadership of Hamas that both does not recognize Israel as a nation and does not partner with them for peace. They (Hamas) do insist on a genocide to establish what amounts to a Caliphate in the region, to be perfectly clear. Ordinary Palestinians are paying dearly. But Hamas must be omitted from the equation: their program is the same as Nazi Germany’s was: The Final Solution. If you don’t believe it, search for their their political charter and read their stated political and racial aims.
Peter
Have you sought treatment for your BDS yet ?
You are likely right that Iran had something
to do with this attack.
May I remind you, though, that the money
that was “released” is Iran’s money. It is currently
in the possession of a bank in S.Korea, where it has
been since 2019 when sanctions were imposed on
Iranian oil exports. After the U.S withdrew from
an internationally brokered agreement ( which Iran
was following) Iran announced the resumption
of its nuclear program. It may have been unpopular
with some people in the U.S but I was quite pleased
with it.
Please explain how the unilateral withdraw by the U.S
helped stop Iran’s’ nuclear ambitions.
And you mention that “we in the West must wake up
to the reality that Russia,…{is} united in their efforts to
challenge and ultimately defeat the US and our democrat allies.
I know that you and many who think like you
think we should stop funding the Ukrainian efforts as it
“fights for it’s life” against the very country that you think
is engaging in an effort to defeat the U.S and our
democratic allies. Do you think that Ukraine is not a
democracy or one of our allies ?
As for Hamas — “The Times of Israel quoted an unnamed
senior Israeli commander as saying Hamas had an army
of 30,000 men. ” That’s just over 1% of the 2.1
million people living in an area 2.5 times the size
of the Vineyard who have been living under a brutal
occupation for 16 years with little or no hope of ever
having a better life.
The attack on Saturday was a brutal act of terrorism
by terrorist and cannot be condoned in any way.
The Israeli response is predictable and will brutally
take the lives of thousands of innocent civilians.
If the world spent 10% of the money it spends
on “defense” on diplomacy and compromise we might
be able to at least reduce the number of these
horrible tragedies .
Violence begets violence.
Give peace a chance.
You cannot sit down at a peace table with terrorists whose only goal is to kill you and obliterate your country. And they think it’s an honor to “martyr” 2 million of their own people to attain that goal. You fail to understand why there are no “peace” negotiations between Israel and Hamas. You don’t have to be Einstein to see this.
Peace is great for people who value life. These terrorists value death, especially of Jews. And Christians would be next, by the way. But they will never destroy Israel, even with all the enablers and those actually locking arms with Hamas to celebrate slaughtering Jews all over the world. The more you talk on this topic the more ignorance you spout.
Name one thing Hamas has done for Gazans in the 17 years they’ve controlled it. Further, name one improvement or advancement to “free Palestine” resulting from decades of hijacked airplanes or kidnapped journalists and beheadings-/ not to mention how many feminists support an free Palestine where keeping women as cloaked property is cool.
Hamas has taken supplies and materials for Gaza and used it to carry out terrorism, even using their own underground water pipes built for Gaza, while Hamas leaders live in luxury in Qatar. The terrorists in charge of Gaza, where Israel hasn’t been since 2005, built tunnels under hospitals and schools to hide and conduct terrorism, using Gazans as shields. Many gazans were treated in Israeli hospitals. You can’t even donate money to innocent civilians in Gaza because Hamas takes it. Imagine if they spent a fraction of the costs of building and training to obliterate Jews instead on improving conditions in Gaza. It’s one thing to be uninformed. It’s another thing to spout off utter ignorance that doesn’t admit, accept and support Israel’s right to exist. Hamas would just as soon shoot you in the face after your rendition of Give Peace A Chance. Hamas must be destroyed.
What happened to the country of Palestine? Were they invaded and occupied by Europeans?
Like what happened in North America?
What is the Final Solution for the Jews, eradication of the Muslims?
To remove Hamas is the stated aim of the State of Israel. “Palestine” was never a country in the sense that it is hoped for today. Learn the history of the British Mandate, WWII, the U.N. resolution that led to the declaration of Israel as a nation and at the same time, the opportunity for another state alongside it, which was rejected by the Palestinian population. And read about the wars since then. The removal of Hamas and their annihilation is the goal. Not the end of the Palestinian people. The stated goal of Hamas is genocide. These are very different aims as the war must continue for now for Israelis to be secure. And Israel needs to stop the blockade, that is not a humanitarian situation and collective punishment is a war crime, which they know. And Biden knows and must step up to control this and also help establish in reality a humanitarian corridor for Americans to leave.
If Palestine was never a country where did Palestinians come from?
Hint:
“The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century bce occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza.”
Palestine predates Moses. God promised the Jews that they could have Palestine, the Palestinians think not.
Didn’t know you are a disciple of Howard Zinn. Are you also a 1619er? BLM? Socialist?⁹
America is Socialist:
Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Obamacare
Minimum Wage
Tax paid education.
Mandated vaccinations.
Black Lives Do Matter.
The opposing point of view:
1619 Made America Great.
Lincoln ruined it.
Hess you dont read history. There is no country called Palestine. Palestinians are an invented people.
Mr Engelman. All countries and nationalities are inventions.300 years ago they were no Americans and in another 300 there might not be again.
Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn, pronounced [fɪ.las.tˤiːn]), officially the State of Palestine[a] (Arabic: دولة فلسطين, romanized: Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a state whose legal status is the subject of controversy although it is currently recognized by 138 of 193 United Nations member states.[
You’re on the right track, unlike quite a few others here. The “country” was generally called Greater Syria. It was part of the Ottoman Empire, which disappeared for good after WWI. The British and the French had a major hand in what followed. If you want a one-sentence summary (OK, it’s a fool’s errand if you know anything about the history, but here goes): European powers provided reparations for the Jews, whom they had done their best to destroy, on the backs of the longtime residents of Palestine.
Susanna, the presence of Jews is found in archaeological evidence in what became Israel much earlier than the Ottoman Empire, well before there was Islam/Muslims. Or Christians, for that matter. People “steal” land in war all over the world, often trying to obliterate the original peoples. And the winner rewrites history to make themselves look glorious, not like invading, genocidal killers. Hello, America. Hello western oater movies that portrayed Indians as savages. Human beings are funny that way. At any rate, Israel is where it is now, rightfully so.
Thomas
I couldn’t agree with you more about Hamas.
But there are 2 sides here. There are virtually
no diplomatic ties between Israel and Hamas.
The policies of the current government of Israel
do not seem to be in any way giving even a glimmer
of hope to the average Palestinian that they will
ever have their own country.
It is my opinion that an independent Palestinian
state is the only solution.
if you give people the tools and the opportunities
terrorist organizations such as Hamas will be
relegated to the dustbin of history.
Terrorist attacks by Hamas and the inevitable
response by Israel will only continue to fuel
the fires of hatred.
2.1 million people in 241 square miles.
65 % of the population is under 24.
45 % are unemployed.
A hungry man is an angry man.
Good thoughts but I remain skeptical that much can be done about terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah except to defeat them, militarily and economically. As long as Iran is funding, training and encouraging terror groups, there will never be peace in the Middle East. It’s time for the West to cut off the head of the snake that is Iran.
Angry, hungry men do not chop off a baby’s head in front of the mother, nor rape an 8 year old and send a video of it to the father. Evil does that. There is verified proof of these atrocities and more, and yet every Jew-hater still denies this. Hamas are monsters of the Charles Manson order, times thousands. Make no mistake, these are not freedom fighters.
I cannot distance myself far enough from some on the liberal left bending over backwards at their computers, trying to equivocate a monstrous, barbaric hatred of Jews with “good people on both sides”. This isn’t about Free Palestine. It’s about Kill All Jews and Obliterate Israel. It’s in the Hamas Charter. Free Palestinians from Hamas!
Hamas planned this massacre down to the letter. They expected and wanted Israel’s swift response INSIDE Gaza where the cowards hide among civilian schools, hospitals and residences. As bd tunnels. Hamas wanted the photos of screaming Palestinian mothers and bombed out neighborhoods to garner support and so that idiot arm chair but ever-inclusive liberals will forget to offer their condolences to all who are grieving and in shock. In 17 years what has Hamas done for its own people? Israel left Gaza in 2005, Hamas was elected in 2006. Is there one person stupid enough not to understand that Hamas cares about Palestinian babies as much as they care about Jewish babies. They teach their own children that all Jews should be killed. Does the liberal left, so quick to show caring for Palestinian civilians, think that Hamas, in their long, careful plan for this massacre, couldn’t plan an escape from Gaza, say, through Egypt, or secure a place they could be safer when the expected bombs came? Imagine if Hamas spent even 1% of what they spent bombing Israel for 17 years, on Gaza infrastructure— instead of digging up Gaza’s water pipes to make bombs to lob at Israel? And now there will be a humanitarian crisis that they instigated.
Don’t get me wrong, civilians in Gaza should be spared, as should the kidnapped hostages there. If there’s a way now, I hope something is negotiated for these innocents. When unspeakable atrocities have been committed against innocent civilians in a surprise attack, who is responsible now for preparing their own people for being in harm’s way? Who is responsible for its own people?
Is there anyone who isn’t a rabid Jew hater who does not know Hamas must be destroyed?
May all the innocents be protected. May those grieving unspeakable loss find comfort from the sources all over the world they may not even know are there for them.
I stand behind Israel and it’s right to exist, 100%. I hope there will be a two state solution in my lifetime. It can’t happen as long as there are peoples like Hamas, Isis, and Nazis who dedicate their life to annihilating Jews all over the world.
Great comment, Jackie! Democrats/Progessives/Leftists/Socialists have for years harbored anti-Israel and antisemitic stances. This is an historic moment, a time of clarity. Across the island, the country, and the world, people are either for freedom or terror. Already we have seen many examples of Americans failing this test: elites at Harvard and Berkely come to mind. Where do you stand?
Peter– don’t you ever tire of displacing
what the right wing obviously does and
twisting it to blame liberals despite the
fact that the overwhelming percentage of
hate crimes are committed by right wing
extremists .
“White supremacists commit the greatest
number of domestic extremist-related
murders in most years, but in 2022 the
percentage was unusually high: 21 of the
25 murders were linked to white supremacists.”
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/murder-and-extremism-united-states-2022
I think we need a catchy acronym to describe
it. How about liberal derangement syndrome ?
LDS — You can talk to your therapist about it
when you see her about your BDS.
But you have a point; we all saw those liberals in
Charlotte chanting “Jews will not replace us” .
So you are labeling me a “right winger” since I oppose our open borders policy? Is that what you are saying…or worse? Since when is supporting our sovereignty, our border and our laws a bad thing? I think your comments tell us far more about your ideology that my more traditional values comments.
I remember when America was great.
The Jews were Democrats/Progessives/Leftists/Socialists.
Peter– I am labeling you a right winger
because you are one.
Your constant Kool aid inspired drum
beat against Biden,democrats/ progressives
/liberals and so called socialist sure doesn’t
fir the rantings of a “left winger”.
I mean really, just because you wrap yourself
in a flag doesn’t mean you can fool anyone
into thinking you are one of the people
you rant against. I admit it– I am a
“left winger” I believe in the freedoms
that the constitution grants us.
That’s the right for a woman to choose
what to do with her body including turning
herself to a he, loving anyone they
choose, even if they are of a different
race or religion, free medical care cradle
to grave free higher education aid to people in
poverty and tax the 1% er’s into oblivion
to pay for it. AND provide a reasonable path
to citizenship for the “huddled masses
yearning to be free”.
You should just man up and tell us
everything you are for– rather than
constantly whining about the immigration
crisis, of course.
we know your take on that.
Given your comment that you are
either for freedom or terror,
labeling you a “right winger” is rather
kind.
This kind of angry back and forth shows that hatred and intolerance is here, there and everywhere, just on a level that isn’t normally explosive. Give peace a chance is just a song to help us feel better, nothing more. It’s not even how you (and I) speak to people with a conflicting point of view. I hate the people who want me dead. Make no bones about it. Forgiveness is a luxury when you’re safe. Peace comes when there’s a clear winner that enforces a lawful peace after winning a war. History tends to repeat itself in that regard. In every regard. Whether the good guys win depends on where you’re standing. I’m standing with Israel.
The elites at harvard and and other “learning” institutions have a right to be manipulated idiots. God bless America. The college presidents who don’t 100% condemn what Hamas did to Israelis deserve to have donations cut off by the big donors, which is what is happening. God bless America, and then some.
jackie– Not everyone who has compassion
for a community of over 2 million oppressed
people hates Jews.
Tell it to someone who doesn’t see through what you’re saying. Did you forget to mention you support Israel’s right to exist? That’s what this is about. Or are you too busy standing up for the side that coincidentally wants Israel and all Jews obliterated? Did you forget to offer a word of comfort to your Jewish friends who are grieving and frightened?
What right does any nation, based on an exclusive religion, have to exist?
Do you have any Palestinian friends?
Jackie– I have many times stated that Israel
has a right to exist. I never implied
otherwise. I offer comfort to anyone
who is grieving and frightened.
I have also never “stood up” for Hamas
or any terrorist organization, including
the proud boys .
But i do have compassion for the
innocent people on both sides
of the border. If I support the
average Israeli citizen that does not
mean I support the policies of
the Netanyahu government any more
than I support Hamas when I support the
average Palestinian.
They are grieving and afraid also.
Violence is not the answer.
Arafat and Rabin set an example.
Don, I think the challenge is that people are conflating a legitimate discussion about the rights of people deprived of a hopeful future (Palestinians) with support for a psychotic death cult (Hamas).
True that
Don, your comments display an obscene insensitivity toward the slaughtered human beings in Israel. But you’re concerned and feel empathy for those who passed out sweets, danced in the streets, and gleefully cheered at videos of Jews being burned alive and women and girls being raped. This cheering went on for days, and arm chair pontificators, who always have something to say about everything, and who switch their social media profile photo to the Ukrainian flag, Je Suis Charlie, BLM, and rainbows, the minute there’s an atrocity committed anywhere in the world, said nothing, dead silence, in the usual forums where we always find them, no matter how off topic it would have been to show caring and empathy to Israelis and jews all over the world who are frightened and being attacked… for the crime of being Jewish. Now that Israel has responded to the surprise atrocities visited upon their people, the cheering Palestinian community has quieted…and they’ve become the victims of Israel, not of Hamas, about to be attacked in a war started by Hamas. They are victims of Hamas, evil, terrorist thugs. And many Palestinians are now so indoctrinated, they are willing to go along with the lies that Hamas tells, cheer at depravity against people they have been taught to hate and kill, and scream in horror and grief when the bombs fall on their own babies in a war they cheered on 5 minutes ago.
This isn’t the first time you’ve been called out for writing vile comments. And I am not the first person to notice.
How many Muslim children have the Israeli terrorist killed?
What is the exchange rate?
Jackie,
The cognitive dissonance is as sad as it is bizarre- many of the people playing the “What about-ism” games would be beheaded by the people they’re trying to justify.
Yes. It’s a deeper, unrecognized problem among some here.
If you stand with the side that wants to see the eradication of Israel and death to all Jews, even if you claim no personal antisemitism, you’re on the wrong side of history. Any club that welcomes Hamas and every Jew-hater on the planet is a bad club, one no decent human being should ever align with.
I expect Trump’s ignorant, antisemitic “very fine people on both side” comments after Charlottesville. Did not see it coming from Don after Hamas beheaded Israeli babies.
Do you stand with the side that wants to eradicate Palestine?
Jackie– i am disappointed with your comment
in reference to me.
I in no way say there are “fine people on both sides” .
quite the contrary– I am of the opinion that
there are despicable people on both sides.
Both sides seem to be fine with murdering
the other side. I have NEVER condoned wanton
violence in any conflict.
And as far as the claim that Hamas fighters
beheaded babies
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/
while it mat have happened , the government of
Israel has not confirmed a single incident.
And let me ask you , Jackie, do you think
that the airstrikes on civilian neighborhoods
in the Gaza strip have not resulted in the
dismemberment of any innocent people
including children ?
I am appalled at the violence– I do not
think there is any rationale for Hamas
terrorist to murder innocent israel civilians,
and i do not condone the murder of innocent
Palestinians through indiscriminate bombing
by Israeli forces in the Gaza strip.
When an Israeli jet decimates a residential
housing block and beheads children in the
process I am equally appalled.
We have had 17 years to find a solution,
but the people of Israel chose a prime minister
who has chosen the path of conflict
over diplomacy.
I condemn all violence.
I am really disappointed with your comment
about me.
It in no way reflects my opinions.
Angry Muslims chop off babies heads.
Angry Americans bomb maternity hospitals.
“Angry” people do not behead babies. Those with maniacal bloodlust do. “Angry” people do not rape. Those who want to debase, dehumanize, humiliate, and conquer do.
We are all capable of anger. I don’t believe we’re all capable of torture.
Bombing maternity hospitals is torture.
Do the Palestinians also have a right to exist? There are over 1 million people in Gaza under 18, most have nothing to do with Hamas. They are trapped and being basically carpet bombed, no water, no electricity, no food. What are they supposed to do? If your only concerned with deaths of a certain ethnicity and not another you better take a gook look in the mirror.
Scott, you do not know what you are talking about.
“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.” Golda Meir
That is still true today. Monsters burn people alive, decapitate babies, rape girls, and put it on the victims Facebook feeds for their loved ones to see. Israel is forced into bombing Gaza, destroying Hamas hiding in tunnels there. No one wants innocents killed except for Hamas and the rabid antisemites who agree with the charter that directs these monsters to obliterate Israel and kill all jews. If you don’t see this as evil, there is something wrong with you.
Thank you for your concern for those who are grieving.
Do the Palestinians also have a right to exist?
Scott, Israel issued a warning to palestinians to evacuate northern Gaza. Hamas told them to stay. Why is it so hard to recognize the monsters, and who is responsible for putting their own innocent people into a sure death trap?
Israel issued a warning for people to leave their homes.
A monstrous request.
“a sure death trap”? who will be doing the killing?
Men with full belles bomb maternity hospitals.
I don’t think they will be hungry or angry much longer despite Bob Marley.
Hi Don,
Agreed that a hungry man is an angry man. But let me ask you this, why are not (and why have not) the surrounding Arab nations welcoming their fellow Arab brothers and sisters into their countries?
John– perhaps because they have the same
misinformed ideas that some of us do about
immigrants replacing us, making our country
dirtier and poisoning our blood. They wouldn’t
have a country if they just had open borders,
right ?
Keller, there are no ”despicable people on both sides” as your post describes. The despicable are Hamas and Hamas only. Israel as been defending itself for 60 years in the country which is theirs since 1948 and the Balfour Declaration. Hamas and Iran want Israel gone, obliterated, into the sea. That is their sole purpose. Israel does not govern Gaza–it patrols borders. Hamas governs Gaza and the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas. Israel is not targeting Palestinians. Save us your ”compassion for the people” nonsense. To avenge a savage assault is normal and moral. Jackie and I disagree a great deal on many issues but on this one we are inexorably linked in our support and love–yes love for Israel. Christianity is Jewish and while I am not Jewish, all my beliefs are informed by the Old Testament and the New. Evangelical Christians stand with Israel firmly. Jews are Gods chosen people based upon the unconditional covenant God made with the Abraham wherein he promised prosperity, land, productivity. I lived in Iran for two years, I speak Farsi, I know what the Mullahs want for Israel. I even heard it in 1967 on tapes sent from the exiled Khomeini to mullahs in villages throughout Iran. BTW both Egypt and Jordan dont want Gazans into their country. It is not Israel that is denying emigration. Abdullah 11 even declared it last night on CNN.
John– To answer your question more
directly, the government of Israel
controls emigration from the Gaza strip.
Surrounding countries can’t take them
if they wanted to. Even Egypt, which
has a border with Gaza, is forbidden by
Israel to allow them into Egypt without
Israeli permission.
Cite your sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Palestine#:~:text=Access%20to%20the%20West%20Bank,Gaza%20is%20controlled%20by%20Hamas.
Keller do you understand that Gaza is a terrorist State and the Palestinians who live there voted for Hamas to rule them. You keep insisting there are two sides. No there is one side who wants to live peacefully and another side whose sole purpose is to eradicate Israel and Jews. Collateral damage is different than purposefully killing babies. If someone came to your home holding a baby on their chest and started to shoot you you would kill them I hope and the poor baby might die in the process. What do you not understand. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. They own a postage stamp country surrounded by people who hate them and who have done very little for their own population while Israel has turned a desert into an Oasis in 6o years and is advancing some of the most sophisticated technology ever.
Thank you, andrew
andy– I understand that Hamas is a terrorist
organization. it won an election in 2006
and has not allowed another election
since. Gaza is not a terrorist state.
It is a territory, largely controlled by Israel.
It is clear that most of the people in Gaza
do not support the terrorist activities of
Hamas or Hamas’s goal of eradicating
Israel. They also want to live in peace.
Please don’t accuse me of supporting
things I don’t. I know one of your
favorite tactics is to lie about what people
think or say, especially when it comes to me.
engleman do understand that at at the end of WW2 no one wanted the Jews, especially Germany, their solution to the problem was to ship them to Palestine.
During the war the Americans would not let in a boat load Jews, they had to go to Cuba.
Albert– That was the St louis.In 1939
it went to Cuba first, then to the U.S
then to Canada.
All of which refused entry for them.
It eventually went back
to Europe with 903 Jewish refugees on board.
245 of them were killed by the nazis.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ss-st-louis-jewish-refugees-turned-away-holocaust
Gaza is not a State.
For the very same reason we do not welcome our fellow Christian brothers and sisters from Mexico?
Yes Hess, the Democrat FDR didnt let the Jews into the US on the ship St Louis. There is no Palestine country and never was. The region then was Transjordan. Read History please, you are old enough.
Did the Republicans demand that the Jews be let in?
Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn, pronounced [fɪ.las.tˤiːn]), officially the State of Palestine[a] (Arabic: دولة فلسطين, romanized: Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a state whose legal status is the subject of controversy although it is currently recognized by 138 of 193 United Nations member states.[18][19]
Transjordan is a “country” the British made up out of thin air.
It’s taught at Harvard.
This is not America’s fight. Both parties are hell bent on destruction. Past proves present.
If you all new the current affairs of Israel you would know the country is corrupt and the majority of Israeli’s
want Netanyahu removed and or jailed. This rabbit hole is Bebe’s Wag the Dog moment. The baby killing was debunked by the original reporter, so let’s not start WW3
over the babies dying last weekend. Calmer heads need to prevail over there
Greer you don’t know what you are talking about. No moral equivalence on this one.
I always wondered who the individuals were who denied the holocaust. They would say, “Where’s the proof?” When they were shown proof they’d say the photos and films were doctored.
Fast forward to last Saturday. There are individuals who deny the slaughter of infants, children, entire families, and all the rapes. Not even mentioning the kidnappings. This next generation of deniers ask, “Where’s the proof?” The proof is provided courtesy of the barbarous perpetrators, proudly posting their depravity on social media, often using their victims’ phone to post to their fb page for their loved ones to see. Seeing the proof, the deniers say it’s all doctored, after it’s been verified.
Evil exists. Denying evil is as sick as committing it.
Yes, there are fake photos going around, but don’t deny verified reality.
Jackie is 100 percent correct.
From the Jewish perspective.
From the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim perspective that isn’t ignorant of the facts, brainwashed, or, you know, so antisemitic they will not recognize Israel’s right to exist.
There, fixed it for you.
Palestine and Israel have as much right to exist as Mexico and Canada.
From the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim perspective that isn’t ignorant of the facts, brainwashed, or, you know, so anti-Muslim they will not recognize Palestine’s right to exist.
There, fixed it for you.
But you will hear people say, “Well, what about the innocent Palestinians? What about the Palestinian children?” What about them? “We have children in here” is the ultimate checkmate, but only to the Israelis, as the Hamas guys always win. And you can always count on leftists and the media, but I repeat myself, to use that argument. If they truly cared about Palestinian children, they would say, “Surrender now. Surrender to Israel, and they’ll take care of you.” But no, they want the enemy to win. And we can’t let that happen. This is not about innocent Palestinians dying. This is about innocent Israelis dying unavenged. Do not fall for this, and do not be soft-hearted. If your society embraces barbarism, there are consequences.
If “they” truly cared about Israeli children, “they” would say, “Surrender now. Surrender to Palestine, and they’ll take care of you.” This is not about innocent Israeli’s dying. This is about innocent Palestinians dying unavenged.
It’s a point of view thing.
It is so confusing, is Harvard essentially a Jewish University or antisemitic, or both?
If your society embraces barbarism, there are consequences.
Razor wire in the river comes to mind.
Judith Fenton,
Albert, Here we go…Europeans invading and occupying North America. Name me one country in the world that has not been invaded, occupied and colonized always violently. Read a history of nations!
Muslims and Jews have been working side by side in Israel. The Israel people do not behead those with whom they disagree.
Judith — unless they are doing it from a warplane.
Have you watched any of the videos of Israeli warplanes
bringing down apartment complexes with hundreds
of people in them? You think there are no children
in those buildings ? Do you think some of those children
were not decapitated ? Dismembered ? crushed ?
Burned to death ?
The point is that hard liners on both sides of this
conflict have not produced a verifiable solution.
Innocents on both sides pay the price.
Judith,
I have read the history, Europeans invaded North America.
That does not make it right.
Many countries had slaves, that does not make it right.
Israel has been working to rid the area of all Muslims.
The Israelis have very sophisticated missiles to kill people, the Muslims have swords.
No they bulldoze them, while they are still in the house and take their land, turn it over to colonizers who calling themselves settlers, control the narrative and create an apartheid state that makes the apartheid South Africa and the Jim Crow South look less heinous. One can be equally against Hamas and against the myth of manifest destiny and its Israel equivalents. Diplomacy has long left the room as the war machine profits and death prevail, and a two state solution has long been damned by the more powerful in this asymmetric dynamic.
Concentrate the three major monotheisms in a small area, what could go wrong?
The problem in the Middle East is religion.
Eradicate religion.
Most terrorism is committed in the name of “God”.
I’ve written about four novel-length comments on this subject and keep deleting them for various reasons.
For now, I will just say that my deepest sympathies go out to everyone who has been personally touched by this loss of innocent life. Who is scared and in shock. I wish there were some magic, or at least adequate, words of comfort to ease what is happening, but I have none. My heart is heavy.
At elite universities left wing Professors are dehumanizing Jews and Israelis. It is a concerted attempt to propagandize youth. In the late 30’s 35 thousand young people marched to Madison Garden to support Hitler. This is the same as then. In addition Bidens obsession with climate change and fossil fuels allowed Iran to produce an additional 30 billion of oil income some of which is financing the attack on Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah are Iranian proxies doing this savagery. To suggest there are two sides to the story and other moral equivalence arguments is stupidity at its finest.
andy– thousands of people “march” into
trump rallies to this day.
Do you consider your alma mater to be an elite university?
Have you discussed the rampant antisemitism with your classmates?
Hess, I went to Harvard Business school and it was almost 50 years ago. I different era. No I would hire the first 50 names in the telephone book before I would hire someone from Harvard.
andy, did you attend an elite university with left wing professors? Were you propagandized?
Iran produced more oil under Trump than Biden.
https://tradingeconomics.com/iran/crude-oil-production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPMk5hOpyxs
History lesson for “useful (to Hamas) idiots” who cannot help themselves.
“We have had 17 years to find a solution”. ~Don
Who’s “we”? Lol.
“There are virtually no diplomatic ties between Israel and Hamas”. ~again, Don
Why doesn’t Don sit at a table with someone, not only trying to kill him and everyone he knows and loves, but won’t stop until they are all dead?
The Israeli government has done some awful things, too, in their short history of being, like allowing more Israeli settlements in the West Bank, but the Jewish people and Judaism are a culture that values life. Hamas cannot say the same. Why does anyone think it is taking days and days to bomb Hamas? If you do not recognize the absolute need to destroy Hamas, you are on the wrong side of history… and of life. Israel does not want to kill innocents. Only Hamas WANTS to do that.
When I was in my 20’s, i was rooting around in an old chest in the basement of my parents’ house. I found a dagger in a sheath with Nazi insignia and with a leather strap, used, I supposed, to attach the knife to a belt. I went to my father and asked him what it was from? He told me that when he was liberated from the Nazi POW labor camp, he “took” the dagger off one of the Nazi guards. I remember stupidly saying to my father, “Oh, like an exchange of souvenirs now that the war was over?” I will never forget the look on my father’s face, one which I had never seen before, and would never see again. I realized how idiotic I was in that one moment.
You do not sit at a table with someone whose only goal in life is to see you dead. Unless you’re an idiot, or, I suppose, a white liberal who doesn’t know jack.
There seem to be a few Martha’s Vineyard scholars on this thread, furiously trying to give themsevles a doctorate in Wikipedia research. It’s not working. You still sound, uh, manipulated, uninformed, and/or anti semetic-ish.
Don, LWK, TG, RSP, and JB: (it’s over the head of the person I left out)
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide
Article from 2014, explaining the obsessive, manic criticism and scrutiny of Israel, (which is obvious to most Jewish people, especially those of us over the age of 70.
Need more?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/arab-states-say-palestinians-must-stay-their-land-war-escalates-2023-10-13/
Still think this is about “Free Palestine” and not “destroy Israel, no matter the cost”? Guess who doesn’t want a two state solution and would rather die than let Jews live?
There are 1 billion Muslims worldwide– There are 16 million Jews worldwide, out of a population of 8 billion people on the planet.
There are 6 million Jews in Israel. There are 464 million Arabs in the Middle East.
No country, no group of human beings, is scrutinized and held to an impossible standard no other group or country is held to, let alone a democracy, more than Israel and Jews. Yes, there’s lots wrong with how Israel’s government has handled Gaza and the West Bank. Both territories, as this article explains, are a symptom of the Arab/Israeli struggles, not the cause of it, as many of the Useful-to-Hamas-Idiots promote. There coiuld have been a Palestinian state in 1948, along with Israel. Guess who said NO.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66785466 No coverage, no vigils, no empathy, no nothing that I can see from a bleeding heart white liberal on Martha’s Vineyard commenting at MVTimes.
Never thought I would be this disgusted with so many former friends, many of whom have nothing to say to me, ask me if i’m alright, and how I am coping. Live and learn.
But Katie, thank you for being you. You wrote the perfect comment. Bless your beautiful heart.
Jackie-
Quite frankly, I can’t figure out why you are
accusing me of supporting Hamas and/or
accusing me of not recognizing Israel’s
right to exist. From your rhetoric, it seems
you are in favor of the Israelis’ committing
genocide. Are you suddenly in favor of
genocide, Jackie? It certainly sounds like
it. Am I not allowed to express concern
about thousands of innocent people being
killed in Gaza in the coming weeks or months?
Do you actually think that I in any way
have not been horrified with the massacre
last week ? Have I said I thought that was
a good thing?
“We” are the world community.
may I remind you that Bill Clinton
hosted Yitzhak Rabin and Yassar Arafat
and got them to sign a peace deal
and even shake hands — twice.
It is possible to sit down and negotiate
with your enemies.
And let me tell you a story.
My father was a POW in Japan.
He served another 18 years in the
submarine service after that horrific
experience — He was one of 20 on his
submarine with a crew of 130 who made it
home. In 1961 we were living in a neighborhood
that had a lot of military people who had
been through the war. A Japanese family
moved in right next to our house. Many
of our neighbors wanted them gone.
My father invited our military neighbors
over to his house.
He said ” I have more reason to hate the
Japanese than anyone in this room–But tomorrow
my wife is going to bake a cake, and we are going
to welcome them into our neighborhood”
Perhaps, Jackie, if both sides stopped demonizing
the other, we might have a more peaceful world.
Your comment that implies that I sound “anti semetic-ish”
is quite disturbing to me. It seems you are demonizing
me. There is no reason for that.
I stand with Israel and the Jewish people.
But I do not condone genocide.
Hate is not the answer. Unfortunately, there is plenty
of that in the middle east.
Don,
This is the first time you have said “I stand with Israel….” 10 days after the slaughter. Do you agree Hamas must be destroyed? The Give Peace a Chance is frankly insulting at this moment, sweet as it can be at times, since most of us who are Jewish and connected by less than one degree of separation to the slaughter, are in deep mourning. I hope for peace. it will not come without destroying Hamas now. Hamas has has no interest in giving peace a chance. What don’t you understand?
“Hate is not the answer”. How do platitudes help or change reality? Hamas and the violent, sick ideology has to be destroyed. The mantras that have no understanding of reality sound like Haight Ashbury flower children high on pot in the 60s. It is an insensitive slap in the face to Jews if there is not support that Hamas must be destroyed, not out of hate or cruelty or even revenge, but out of a determination of the Jewish people to live. And they will.
“Unfortunately, there is plenty of that [hate] in the middle east”. Violent, “Free Palestine” zealots are protesting all over the world, including where I am now in NYC. And there isn’t enough hate and antisemitism on Martha’s Vineyard? Did you read the piled-on, with many barely-veiled antisemitic tropes, complete with cartoons published in the paper, to belittle Alan Dershowitz during the Chilmark Library brouhaha (that had such an obvious and simple and easy resolution, no thanks to the librarian)?
It’s fine to decry the idea of hate as “over there”, especially if you have no fear of the possibility of being shot in the face for being Jewish, or going to synagogue now in any city in America or Europe. Save your story, please. Instead tell us again how you agreed that the slave-holder forgiveness plaque in Oak Bluffs should remain on public property, to greet people, including those who’ve descended from slaves, as they arrived in OB. It must be nice to be forgiving of the tragic dehumanizing traumas, not of one war experience, but that occurred over centuries, to generation after generation, with damages that carry on into future generations– but not impacting your people. I can assure you, my father never forgave the Nazis. And neither will I.
My comments are meant disturb your thinking.
Facts. History. Imagine that …in a long but worthwhile video: (although there is defintiely a point of view and opinion, especially at the end) Trigger warning: it is not pro-palestinian.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNf40sBcvKk
Israel (Jews) has “stolen” no land, even in the context of those of us who don’t believe the bible is “fact”. The proof is in the archeology of the land of Judea– later named Palestine by the conquering Romans, and today, Israel. People who lived in what was called Palestine, called themselves Palestinians, including Jews like Golda Meir, by the way. The “free Palestine” movement has a silly name, if you ask me, but what’s in a name? But even I say, FREE PALESTINE FROM HAMAS. What i mean is, Free Gaza and the West Bank from Israeli control and settlements, NOT take Israel for a Palestinian state and kill all Jews.
Hamas has turned Gaza, controlled by Hamas and blockaded by Israel and Egypt, into one big suicide bomb. Innocent Palestinians will be killed. Hamas did this to them, with a meticulous intention. Israelis have no choice here. Hamas glorifies what they consider a martyred death. Hamas steals everything they can from the people they control, including fuel and supplies, while Hamas leaders sit safely in other Arab countries. What did anyone expect Israel to do after the worst, most depraved crimes commited against Jews since the Holocaust? Does anyone want want Israelis to sing Give Peace a Chance and accept refugees from Gaza that no Arab country wants?
Maybe Joe Biden can convince Israel to allow for a mass exodus to somewhere safe (where?) for those innocent civilians, I don’t know, but I hope he has the money backed pressure to hold off the killing that’s about to happen. Not that bombing Israel from Gaza has let up. Let’s hope for the President’s safety as we hope for all innocents. But i will always stand with Israel. I don’t know what will happen, but I am afraid.
Jackie, I think I may have been one of the first to respond to one of your other comments on vaccines to say my prayers are with Israel and her people, and they will forever remain there.
I also am in total agreement with you and your stance on Israel. Hamas has in their “charter” to kill all Jews. I have read everyone one of your posts and I feel your pain and anguish. I’m truly sorry.
People need to understand that If Israel told Hamas to put their weapons down and surrender their would not be one of them killed. On the other hand If Hamas told Jews to put their weapons down every Jew would be annihilated. It’s as simple as that. There is no equivalent in what the outcome of this war is. One will coexist while the other would rather die.
If I may, try not to lose friends over this especially if they don’t understand your point of view. I would just say try to stay calm and try educate those who don’t agree with you. By shutting friends out, or making things personal our common enemy wins. Don’t let them. I feel your emotions and can respect them.
I will continue to root you on from the sidelines so stay safe and be strong.
You are doing an amazing job.
Keller it is not genocide when Israel attempts to avenge a barbarian assault on their women and children, anymore than it is not genocide when the US attacks Japan for its assault on Pearl Harbor or when we go after Osama bin Laden. When are you going to understand that Israel has a right to avenge? When Hamas kidnaps 150 people and hides behind them in tunnels built over the years with Iranian money, how would you expect Israel to avenge? Should they not avenge because Keller believes that Palestinians should be spared. Israel has told them to leave. No one likes genocide. Should Jews in Hitlers time not fight back in underground assaults and kill Nazis. Hamas should be wiped off the face of the earth and that is what Israel will do and some of us support it. Your moral equivalence position is weakly framed and shows you true colors. Your ”hate is not the answer” cliche is corny at best
The History
“European powers provided reparations for the Jews, whom they had done their best to destroy, on the backs of the longtime residents of Palestine.” Comment by Susanna J. Sturgis
The Current
“The point is that hard liners on both sides of this conflict have not produced a verifiable solution. Innocents on both sides pay the price.” Comment by don keller
The Near Future
More of the same and probably worse.
The Long Term
A fragile compromise might emerge as in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor…
What a poor summary, but no longer unexpected from the liberal left which has shocked and disappointed me beyond words. It’s been a double whammy for me these last 10 days, the sorrow of seeing the slaughter of Jews, and now this kind of distorted narrative.
If you’re going to quote people, at least quote facts, not opionions masquerading as facts, simply because you agree with the opinions.
Regarding creating Israel (and a land for the palestinians which the Arab world rejected) European powers did what was good for themselves, including a means for them to have access to oil. They HAD to do something for the Jews who were nearly entirely elimated from a wrold that largely did not give a crap, never gave a crap, and still does not give a crap about Jews. Jews have been “residents of Palestine” since forever, except when they were killed or driven out. As has been explained in video links that tell a different story than what the liberal left wants to believe, Palestinian is a word that simply describes a person who resided in the land the Romans renamed after getting rid of the Jews, and “Palestinians came from all over. There were long periods when there were no Jews, but make no mistake, the Hebrews were on that land well earlier than “Palestinians”. But so what. It’s the Jewish homeland now.
The American liberal left recites a narrative about Arab/Jewish conflicts and history with a certainty that happens to be highly distorted, and sometimes utterly made up. I respect the intelligence of the people you quote, but what they are saying is punctuated with a bias that conveniently disregards the fact that many in the Arab world, including many modern day Palestinians living in the territories where they are trained to hate and kill Jews, do not, will not EVER, recognize Israel’s right to exist. Some of my now former friends on the liberal left actually think it is a war crime for Israel to defend herself again terrorists trying to eradicate Israel and all Jews, yes, even after the slaughter that makes Charlie Manson look sane– a war crime because palestinian civilians used by hamas as shields, will be killed.
I disagree with the quotes you chose– with Susanna’s, because she fails to mention Israel’s history on the land, which is much earlier and longer-time than the so called Palestininas. That’s some omission. I disagree with highlighting Don’s comment because, althougth I agree civilian loss in a war or humanitarian crisis is always tragic, this was a set up, was intentionally created by genocidal monsters to force Israel into an impossible situation of having to kill civilians. Don somehow fails to mention that Hamas put the Gazan civilians purposely and cowardly in the line of fire of Hamas tunnels which must be destroyed. Of course civiliains will be killed. Hamas put Israel in this position to gain sympathy from the world, from pro-palestinian antisemites, to the largely systemically antisemitic liberal left, and to everyone in between, where it is okay to think Israel should not fight a war to protect herself and put an end to Hamas.
Looks like Israel is saying that the bomb that killed over 500 peope in a hosptial today where Gazans were taking refuge, was actually from a Palestinian rocket. Who do we believe? The genocidal maniacs who burned civiian families alive, raped girls and women, ripped children from their mothers to hold them as hostages in the land that the Israelis will bomb, or the Israelis who drop knockers before bombs, so as not to hurt innocents if they can help it? I know who the world will choose to believe.
What an accurate summary.
From my dear friend Dave Markowitz:
🕊Peace Prayer 🙏💖
Can we imagine a world where people don’t need to prove anything—where communication replaces violence?
Let us picture and manifest a planet that is cared for by its inhabitants, where no one abuses another because of their own pain, but more so works to heal it from the inside out—permanently, while preventing the cycle from repeating itself.
Let us teach peaceful conflict resolution skills in school in addition to reading, writing and arithmetic. Let us teach tolerance and respect in the curriculum along with history and science. Let us meet the people we were taught to hate and fear, so we can see for ourselves that we all want the same things out of life.
Let parents, authority figures, heroes and heroines, authors and playwrights, CEO’s, judges, governmental officials, presidents, and dictators all see that “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” leaves the world blind, hungry, vengeful, or worse.
Let it be so.
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