Updated April 3
In the case brought forward by Venezuelan asylum seekers who were sent to Martha’s Vineyard one-and-a-half years ago by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a federal judge has provided a pathway for the migrants to bring claims against the company that chartered the planes to the Island.
On Friday, U.S. District Court Judge Allison Burroughs ruled that the plaintiffs in the case can proceed with a lawsuit against Vertol Systems, a Florida-based charter company that was contracted by the State of Florida to transport the asylum seekers to the Island.
Lawyers for Civil Rights, Boston, who are supporting the migrants in the civil case, call Friday’s ruling a “major victory” in the case.
“It sends a crucial message: private companies can — and will — be held accountable for helping rogue state actors violate the rights of vulnerable immigrants through illegal and fraudulent schemes,” a statement from the civil rights group reads.
On the Island, advocates call it another step in bringing justice, although maybe not as quickly as some had hoped.
“A year and a half after the kidnapping of forty-nine migrants by some of the most powerful people in our country, it would be easy to be disappointed by how slowly the wheels of justice seem to be turning,” said Rachel Self, an Island resident and maverick criminal defense and immigration lawyer who has assisted the 49 migrants in a separate criminal case brought before a grand jury in San Antonio, Texas in the fall.
While Self said the criminal and civil cases are moving slowly through the court system, this most recent ruling in the civil case is an important step forward.
“It is incredibly important that a court has recognized the plainly obvious facts in this civil case — these migrants were taken advantage of because of who they were, and the vulnerable position they were in, and someone needs to be held accountable for that. There need to be consequences,” Seif told The Times.
“We must make it very clear to these politicians and their friends that we will not allow them to act with impunity. We will not allow them to take advantage of incredibly vulnerable people fleeing oppression and corruption and injustice in their own countries. We cannot allow them to do all this, and then turn around and claim they’re doing it in the name of liberty and the law,” Self added.
Three Venezuleans identified as Yanet, Pablo, and Jesus are the named plaintiffs in the case before the federal court in Massachusetts, along with Alianza America, an advocacy network of Latin American migrant-led organizations based in Chicago.
There are four Venezuelan immigrants who have remained on the Island after the 2022 flights. Island advocates who have been in close touch with them say they are doing well and working with immigration lawyers.
While the judge gave the plaintiffs the opportunity to bring charges against the charter company, Burroughs did rule in favor of DeSantis and his administration as well. The judge dismissed DeSantis and other Florida state officials, as well as Perla Huerta, a U.S. Army veteran accused of rounding up migrants in San Antonio and luring them onto planes with false promises of jobs and other enticements.
Burroughs said that the plaintiffs had insufficient evidence to connect the Florida officials to crimes in Massachusetts.
“The Court, as it must, credits Plaintiffs’ well-pleaded allegations that Defendants, as a group, deceived vulnerable and desperate people into getting on planes with promises of food, shelter, and employment when in fact they were being dumped on an isolated island, where no one was expecting them, as part of a political stunt,” the court ruling reads. “That said, on the present record, the Court cannot ascertain what actions were undertaken by whom and therefore cannot determine which, if any, of the individual Defendants transacted business or caused injury here, leaving it no choice but to find that, at least on this record, personal jurisdiction has not been established.”
While DeSantis has praised the decision for dropping the case against him and other state officials, the court’s dismissal is “without prejudice,” meaning that the claims may be reasserted and reinstated. “Unlike ICE agents legitimately enforcing the country’s immigration laws … the Court sees no legitimate purpose for rounding up highly vulnerable individuals on false pretenses and publicly injecting them into a divisive national debate,” Burroughs wrote in the ruling. “Treating vulnerable individuals in this way … is nothing short of extreme, outrageous, uncivilized, intolerable, and stunning.”
The Lawyers for Civil Rights say that their fight against the top officials is far from over.
“The migrants will continue to pursue their claims in federal court against all defendants — including by seeking jurisdictional discovery to prove the viability of the claims against the dismissed parties,” a statement from the rights group states. “Put simply, the migrants will zealously seek accountability for what the Court has dubbed, at this preliminary stage, ‘tortious’ acts.”
In a statement Monday, Alianza America says they will also continue to push for additional charges. “Alianza Americas promises to continue our legal fight on behalf of our highly vulnerable sisters and brothers, who were subjected to severe emotional distress under false pretenses and horribly used as scapegoats for a divisive political circus,” the statement reads. “We will pursue every and all avenues to win our case and hold fully accountable all parties involved who use power and money to pervert our democracy and our civil rights.”
Illegal immigrants given an opportunity to come to a free country now suing the very people who gave them the opportunity. Lovely. This is simply a bunch of angry lawyers trying to fight back and exploiting the Venezuelans who dont know what the heck is going on.
Welcome to America!
The oppressed of the world thank you for your warm and sincere welcome.
When did we welcome your forefathers to our great nation?
When did Martha welcome you to her bosom?
andy– they were already legally in a free country with all the opportunity
that entails before they were trafficked. Desactimonious could have at least
given them some warm clothes if he cared so freakin much about them.
Is it ok to say “freakin” ? I have identified as a biological male all my freaking life,
after all.
Just want to remind the Venezuelans that if they buy or rent a home they are entitled to claim tax credits for installing solar panels or wind turbines, or even adding energy improvements such as insulation.
Also, wish them the best of luck in creating a beautiful life in their new home, wherever they may choose.
Wow– America and Jesus teaming up on this
one. How can the haters compete with that ?
Don, immigration/illegal immigration/asylum seekers/environmental refugees is in my opinion one of the most politicized topic in recent times. I made reference to being at each others throats in another comment and I meant us as a country and not the ongoing debates that we are having. I relish our back and forths. My sincere apologies if you took it that way or if my rhetoric deeply offended you. A little offense I’m ok with but I don’t want to ever stop the dialogue. Also you are right that I have been blaming everything on the liberals. There is enough blame to go around and to constantly point the finger at one side does not make for a good discussion. I’ve been a little ornery lately. lol. Raman Keller.
Carl– Thank you for that clarification. I would hope you know me well enough to know that I am not easily “deeply offended” HA! I have some pretty thick skin. About the only think I have even been a little personally offended by on this site is Jackie’s constant lie about me being anti-semitic. If I actually was anti-semitic I would just defend my position. I don’t like it when ignorant people lie about my opinions. Given that, I doubt you will ever be in danger of offending me. By the way, to date I have only been able to get through the first 15 minutes of that 45 minute lecture you posted. Interesting so far… I will get to the rest of it. Thanks again for the unnecessary apology… I appreciate it.
“About the only think I have even been a little personally offended by on this site…”
You’ve stated on multiple occasions that something here offended you. The remarks in question were quite mild, especially compared to your own. I took notice.
“Jackie’s constant lie about me being anti-semitic… I don’t like it when ignorant people lie about my opinions. ”
That’s not what happened. In my eyes, you came across as furious under numerous articles after Jackie called you out. It was insisted upon, in the most aggressive manner conceivable, that she was wrong. The subject was even changed from raped, broken Israelis to your hardships on this forum, as if the latter trumped the former in urgency.
Everything’s been so uncivil lately that it takes a lot to be memorable. For me, that did the trick. I was appalled. The overall approach to discussing sexual assault by Hamas was obscene, and uninformed, but that deserves its own post. (I tried at the time.) The responses to Jackie expressing her grief remain cruel. If we can have compassion for those overseas, we can do the same for our neighbor.
Despite fervent denials of harboring any Jew-hatred, you then went on to describe Jewish people using a stream of biased, vitriolic insults. In my opinion, that was game over. It cannot be erased, ignored, unseen, or spun. I was surprised to read it here, knowing such speech isn’t permitted.
From this site’s published guidelines, available for perusal since 2009:
“You agree not to use language that abuses or discriminates on the basis of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual preference, age, region, disability, etc. Hate speech of any kind is grounds for immediate and permanent suspension of access to all or part of the Service.”
Keeping the above in mind, let’s note that the dictionary defines antisemitism as “hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group.” Unlike the neo-words made popular in Washington as of late, this meaning is time-tested, and it seamlessly encompasses those vitriolic adjectives I referenced. Yet, somehow, it is Jackie—not Merriam or Webster—who is being blamed for what angered you originally:
The specter of antisemitism.
If I accuse a man of not honoring my space and he pins me to the wall in response, it’s no longer an accusation. It’s a fact laid bare. And if somebody spends years opining that others are “maggots” or the like because they’re not inclusive enough, only to turn around and denigrate an entire community—one recently brutalized—based on their shared, protected identity…
This wasn’t the first occasion on which you’ve directed prejudice at a fellow commenter. The former mod wouldn’t let me challenge past instances of discrimination, and my attempts were well within the terms of service.
Concern for Gaza, which I have in abundance, isn’t an excuse to dehumanize Jews. Once it’s used as such, of course motives will be questioned. Any seed of doubt as to the purity of that concern will only blossom when an individual professes to hold, depending on the populace involved, highly dissonant views on war. On the very nature of violence itself. I can expound on this point if necessary.
It was this type of pro-se handiwork that led to the current tension. That hasn’t stopped the mockery from continuing at every turn. People are never so mean as when they’re caught out. If I found myself in a similar pickle, I would, from then on, stick to topics unrelated to diversity, empathy, and anything that requires even-handed regard for others. It’s bound to ring hollow.
If you’re truly sorry for crossing the line, Don, as your letter indicated, please reconsider how you speak to and about those you disagree with most. The best apology really is amended behavior. So far, you’ve chosen to stay the inflammatory course. That’s disappointing.
I apologize to Jackie for not saying this exact stuff sooner. I was afraid for a long while of stoking the flames and inviting more criticism of you, but seeing as it hasn’t abated…
I share your heartbreak over the last six months. 100%.
•••
This is my second attempt at posting. I had to prune some parts, and I’m still not sure what was deemed an issue. If the phrasing is awkward or confusing, that’s why. Hopefully I got it right this go-around and the message shines through.
You got it right, Katie Lane. It couldn’t be said better and I thank you. I’m in awe at the sheer brilliance of your words.
I envision a world where people who harbor and express antisemitic views can hear exactly what it is about their hate speech that is antisemitic— when it happens to come from a Jewish person. Until then, our non -Jewish friends who so eloquently teach the lesson will do the job that a Jew cannot yet effectively do. I hope I live long enough that Jews all over do not have to continue to fend off these cruel, attacking lies.
Gratitude to Katie and to others who call it out for what it is. And yes, as I’ve said many, many times on here, may all innocents be safe, be protected, and thrive to do good.
It is not my intention to publicly or further humiliate another human being when they are exposed in a situation I imagine to be very uncomfortable. That said, no one may falsely, and with antisemitic venom, accuse me of hatreds where there is no hate, and for no reason except that I am a Jew who stands up for Israel. I hope that’s clear now.
What about going after the transportation companies here that quickly sent them off the island within 48 hours. The Island did not want them and nobody really wants them except for pathetic Biden who doesn’t even know where he is half the time.
Bob– when they were transferred to a more appropriate facility than the basement of a church, they were told what to expect. They were not promised jobs or permanent housing. They were fed, clothed (remember many of them arrived on a chilly day with only t shirts) they were processed through immigration (remember , they were already in this country legally) and some were transported to places where they had a legal hearing scheduled.
By the way, Kansas city is not in Kansas, and Pleasure California did not have a major fire. But it does seem that the presumptive republican nominee does know he is in the “United Stage”.
Having said all that, I think it’s ridiculous to sue the transportation company for doing what the governor of Florida paid them to do with your misappropriated federal tax dollars. It would be much more appropriate to just impeach governor “DeSanctimonious” and lock him up for human trafficking.
What about going after the charter jet companies that sent them to the Island?
“The Island did not want them” is a flat out lie. The escapees from Communist Venezuela were welcomed by our Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim faith leaders. Not to mention our agnostics and atheists.
Biden knows he is in the White House. Trump knows he is in court, he checks with his lawyers to find out which one.
Albert– don’t forget about the Pastafarians or Pastafarian
(I can only speak for myself)
that welcomed them into our community.
I went there and offered my guest room for
a couple or a single person with a child.
But the plan was already in motion to get them
better accommodations, legal support and resources
than I could have possibly provided.
But I tried.
So let me take the opportunity to note that there
are seemingly few Pastafarians on the island, but that
doesn’t mean we don’t exist. I think we can all agree that I
am the most prominent and well known Pastafarian on
the island. As such, I COULD be considered the local “leader”
of our faith. I am not taking offense that Pastafarians were not
included in your comment, as we could possibly be included in
the category of “agnostic” , but please know
that we exist and would appreciate the acknowledgement
of that. Thanks..
I know you exist. A few wish that you didn’t. Pretty much the same crowd that have proof that the 2020 election waw stoled…
Thank you for this moment of sanity in this discussion.
Just to be clear: my comment was for Albert.
This is old news. Haitian boat people coming to Martha’s Vineyard as soon as Desantis can fill a plane with them.
Congratulations to all involved who contributed in a positive way to the first lesson given to the newest residents of the USA, we are nation governed by the rule of law.
And before the predictable voices of inhumanity chime in, “what about our immigration laws?” , I remind that the US is a signatory to United Nations protocols on the treatment of refugees and asylum seekers.
Of course none of those inconvenient facts will matter in their rush to impugn the motives of those involved and to out MAGA each other.
Welcome to America, to all the Plaintiffs.
spot on James.
DeSantis was vindicated and the transportation companies will be as well. DeSantis did this country the biggest favor by making illegal immigration a national story. Thank you Governor DeSantis.
Who vindicated DeSantis, other than Carl?
Hi, Sam: Good article, but is there any way you can publish a follow-up explaining what the specific charges (and would-be legal penalties) the transportation company is facing? Also, were DeSantis and the other collaborators facing the same charges? Meaning, was it considered a conspiracy to mess with MV (as one of those newfangled Republican “trick plays” to get away with being total a******s) or not? Because that is what it looked like for those of us who see the things we look at for what they are. It’s interesting how the privileged/connected defendants got their charges dismissed while the burden falls on the transpo company. Classic scapegoating!
Without knowing the specifics of what those involved are being sued or, I can’t determine a) whether the migrants and their advocates have what looks like fair case to make (as far as “What would any of us do in their shoes?”), or b) how to counter the perception some may harbor that it’s inappropriate/ungrateful for these migrants to sue. I want to know what “harm” they suffered as the result of a free lift to the Vineyard. I want to know who paid for the flight. (Who doesn’t?) Is there info about that yet publicly?
Thanks!
Annie– You raise a lot of good questions and points.
Just to address one of them, here is an article from
“the failing New York Times” (it sure has been failing
for a long time, so I it’s hard to tell if this is “fake news”
HA! — that’s a joke !)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/02/us/migrants-marthas-vineyard-desantis-texas.html
But let me address something more important —
That being you are a woman and you said “a******s” !
I actually do think that is “wonderful” , even though some
here think a woman should never post anything that could
be deemed “vulgar” . I think people with vulvas should
be allowed to be as vulgar as men. If you don’t know what I am
talking about read the first couple of comments about this story:
https://www.mvtimes.com/2024/03/26/kentucky-senator-picks-vineyard-hospital-funding/
While ‘vulva’ isn’t a dirty word, most people dislike being referred to by their genitalia. Especially women, as there’s a long history of men–I’m not implying all men—who do so abusively. What serves as a proper biological term in some contexts is crass in others.
If you thought you were making a pro-female point here… 😐 The goalpost is about a thousand yards westward. And probably concealed by a windmill.
Thank you, Katie. Misogyny, like antisemitism, is often vehemently denied by those who promote it. They think sexism is cute.
Katie– Those who were watching saw congress get all tangled
up when someone asked “what is a woman”
Every single republican representative that was asked that
question referred to some part of their anatomy.
So, okl — let me apologize for using the word “vulva”.
I will replace it with the preferred word of the republican
frontrunner of the republican party.
But it seems trendy to not actually say the word
here so would p***y be better ?
“Every single republican representative that was asked that question referred to some part of their anatomy.”
That makes sense. They were being asked to provide a technical definition in a formal setting. I would expect anatomical, not interpersonal, replies. In fact, I would prefer them. As I mentioned, clinical terminology is appropriate in some contexts.
If pressed to answer the same question, I would simply offer that a woman is a female human being who has reached adulthood. Should someone need to get more specific, then yes, there are biological traits.
That is a separate matter from how we refer to each other in everyday life, especially when chatting about the opposite sex. If I were an employee tasked with filling out a medical chart, I may write, “Patient presented with enlarged prostate.” Distant but factual.
When talking about this patient to his face, however, I’m going to use Bill or Adam. Whatever his real name is. I’m going to call him “sir”. I will, most importantly, refer to him as a man when using third-person voice, not a vague entity with an organ. This is the most courteous approach. Pretty basic stuff.
I don’t feel you or Trump should be focused on genitalia, so neither term appeals. But then, I’m often accused of being too reserved. Fine by me. Manners have value. They signal “I care about your comfort level.”
This is not a political or partisan subject, yet you reframed it as such. Color me unsurprised.
•••
Jackie, you did an amazing, thorough job breaking down what constitutes antisemitism. Today, I spent an unusual amount of time writing a reply to Don about what’s taken place here on that topic, being ultra-careful with my wording.
As of now, it wasn’t posted with the last batch of comments, despite there being no insults, vulgarity, or prejudice included. Wouldn’t know how to edit it when every word is necessary to counter distortions.
I hope it gets approved because I want you to feel supported. Please know that I tried. Over the last eighteen months, maybe longer, the only comments I’ve had withheld have been in defense of you and the Israeli victims. Hard not to notice.
I’m so sorry you have to read and address these personal attacks, let alone repeatedly. The things said have been beyond inappropriate and are demonstrably untrue. Wish I had more leeway to elaborate.
Yes Keller I do think it is unseemly for women to use those swear words. I would not hold company with that kind of woman and would not want her as a wife or mother to my children.
Andrew, it’s unseemly for a woman to use swear words, but Trump is not unseemly?
lol, only in America.
That is what is wonderful about America. Why we are the envy of the world.
Our compassion.
You wished death on about three-fifths of the planet, Albert.
I don’t think it gets less compassionate than that.
I don’t want anyone to die.
I just want monotheists to stop killing monotheists?
Do you?
Just love all the HATE spewing from the responses…. you get what you give….. !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope all transportation companies are held liable in this case. The SSA for their hand in transporting them so quickly off this island, and the bus company who picked them up in WH. This is insanity
What about the private jet operators?
The airport for allowing them to land?
What law did the bus company that picked them up in WH break?
Are the bus drivers criminals?
The bus owners?
Should they have been removed quickly so that they did not poison the blood of the Island?
So that they did not replace us?
Thank God the SSA and the bus companies acted so quickly before something truly awful happened!
Some of them could have been rapists and child traffickers, how would we know?
We know that they are all poor people, we don’t know why.
Dog whistles as policy.
A lot of properties are vacant during the slow months.
Why aren’t the owners offering up their empty homes for these people temporarily?
Then they could be virtuous in action instead of just words
Ron Desantis should be vilified for his despicable act. Why Martha’s Vineyard? He brought these people from Texas, to boot. The Times should publish this article and blame in Florida newspapers, especially before the vote to reelect Desantis as Governor of Florida. What a “slime ball”.
I’ll take it that you’re asking in earnest, why Martha’s Vineyard.
Because we’re the loudest mouthed ultra-liberals on the planet, that’s why. For his purpose, he chose his target exquisitely. He bet that we’d shuffle them off this island so fast the world’s head would spin, and his bet paid off.
We can talk about despicableness and compassion and empathy and humanity and all that warm fuzzy stuff till we’re blue in the face, convincing ourselves of our angelic and effective reaction to such stark evil.
Nobody outside of this island’s shores cares what we think of our reaction.
DeSantis got exactly the political payoff he bet on, and then some. That’s reality. He chose Martha’s Vineyard because he knew we’d blithely react just the way he hoped. And we did.
“Because we’re the loudest mouthed ultra-liberals on the planet, that’s why.”
Is that why you immigrated to the Island, to be among your own kind?
DeSantis should be thanked for showing the rest of the country what our border states are experience. They are being invaded, overrun and face budget busting expenses…with NO help from the Biden Administration. Blue cities bragged about their Sanctuary status and now are crying out for help as their streets are overrun with illegals demanding services. Crazy. (See my post below for some examples of this.) DeSantis has proved to every US citizen that EVERY state is now a border state. And he has proved how incompetent the Biden Administration is. It’s now the #1 issue leading up the election in November. Good!
The Biden Administration (the MSM, Hollywood, MV Times etc.) fiddles while Rome burns. Illegal immigration has become the #1 issue for many people and may well be a deciding factor in November. Only an incompetent, out of touch, far left president could screw up so many issues and hand the election to someone so flawed as Mr. Trump. We are truly in for a rough few years.
Peter, I’ve been watching a Trump supporter on YouTube who moved his family to Russia because he believed Trump when Trump said Putin was a good guy. They quickly found out that if you criticize the Russian government things don’t go well for you.
Immigration is being pushed as a hot button issue by radical radio talk show hosts. If we allow immigrants into the US they will destroy our country! What BS! There are enough resources on the planet to support ALL of us! There is enough food for everyone! There is enough electricity for everyone! What is the famous saying? FEAR NOT.
Ummm. Not sure why one Trump supporter moving to Russia means anything. As you’ve read above, I’m not a supporter. The Biden Administration’s Open Border policy is dead wrong and dangerous. When you lose control of your borders, you give up your sovereignty. Mayorkis should be impeached. Biden may well lose the election on this issue. 6 out of 7 swing states are trending for Trump. You obviously haven’t followed what is happening in our border states and our big sanctuary cities. Blue governors are crying out for help as budget deficits soar. (NYC, LA, Chicago and Denver are just some of the cities in crisis.) The I-Team here found out that we currently spend $75,000,000 PER MONTH to care for 7,522 migrant families in our shelter system. We are spending $932,000,000 in fiscal 2024. Gov. Healy and Beacon Hill are projecting $1 BILLION for 2025. MA will have to raise taxes and/or cut services for it’s neediest citizens.) THIS IS MADNESS. WHERE DOES IT END? Tell us…
Peter, the US does not have an Open Border policy. Just because you are afraid of people from other countries doesn’t make it policy.
Peter, it is estimated that the madness numbers you are talking about include homeless people, roughly half. Why aren’t you all up in arms over homelessness?
2017 – 2021 were truly rough years.
Remember Covid?
Did we do a good job?
Mr. Trump is a 91 times indited liar.
Not to mention twice impeached.
Not to mention convicted by jury of his peers of sexual assault.
Not to mention “funny” property valuations.
Only an incompetent, out of touch, far RIGHT President could screw up so many issues and hand the election to someone so flawed as President Biden. Trump was rough few years. Never Again!
Get ready for Trump 2.0. Trump looks to win election as he is leading in 6 of seven swing states. Illegal immigration trending. Crazy spending, inflation, Hunter Biden, etc spell doom for Dems. I’m not a Republican and have never voted for Trump but it looks like he’s coming back.
And for those who are complaining about DeSantis Flying migrants to MV the Biden Administration is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to fly into the US to circumvent the southern border you can’t have it both ways. Pawn are pawns. The overwhelming amount of the flights are going to Miami in retaliation for the MV stunt.
https://cis.org/Bensman/Florida-Gateway-Data-Shows-Most-Migrant-Flights-Landing-Gov-DeSantiss-Sunshine-State
And one of the migrants air Biden raped a girl right here in MA.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/16/us/haitian-migrant-massachusetts.html#:~:text=A%20Haitian%20migrant%20has%20been,aggravated%20rape%20of%20a%20child.
Another great job by our disastrous government.
Our leaders are destroying this country with illegal immigration and fiscal incompetence. And they are failing us on the global stage with inept leadership. Yes, we were better off 4 years ago. Not even a question.
Hi Carl, it looks like my long comment is a “reply” to you. That is in error. I intended my comment to stand alone, not as a response to anyone, but as a clarification of the misunderstandings about antisemitism. I wrote the misplaced comment B.C. (before caffeine). Thanks for your kindness, always.
Jackie,
ikh shtey mit dir shalom Lekha (I stand with you and peace to you) and all of Israel. I read your comment on antisemitism and I have witnessed it firsthand at NYU and Columbia. People say George Orwell’s 1984 has come to life, I would say that Saul Alinskyks Rules for Radicals is the go to teachings of our educational system today. I yearn for the days of civility, strong honest leadership and safety within our communities.
Jackie, thank you ridding the Island BRE.
Please keep up the good work, together we can rid the Island of immigrants.
And antisemites, antichristians, and antimuslims. We must learn to tolerate the agnostics.
You’re welcome. It was a tough job but someone had to do it. Adam and I are both good with each other now, too.
I just saw on the news last night that the Biden Administration has a “secret” program up and running that flies foreign nationals into the US from at least 4 Caribbean, Central American and South American countries. As if we don’t have enough illegals coming across our Southern border already. I believe the US flew in over 180,000 people in 2023. Incredible. Why is this happening? What is the endgame? Is there an endgame? It’s no wonder more and more citizens are confused and disgusted with our government.
Meanwhile, the Mexican president is blackmailing the US to pay billions for Mexico to slow the migrant flow North. And what are we doing about the Mexican drug cartels that in reality, control our Southern Border? The reality on the ground in our border states is frightening and overwhelming. People on the quiet island of MV should wake up the crisis fellow citizens are facing every day before attacking states like Florida and Texas that are on the front lines of this invasion.
Peter, excellent comment. But you will soon be gaslighted for seeing with your own eyes what is actually happing to this country. We are importing people into this country illegally. Our government seems to think that all you have to say is I want to make money and the climate is changing and you have a free ride into this country. Is bazaar. I believe that the Democratic Party is purposely bringing these people into this country so they can be counted in the census and those state with millions more counted will get additional representation in DC by adding a congressman. That’s why liberal cities and sates are sanctuary sates. So they juice their numbers. California recently lost a seat due to people leaving their state. That will change in the next census. Now we know why D’s fought so hard to count illegals in the census. It’s a disgrace. I never thought that I had to vote for Trump but I can’t in good conscience not vote as a result of what Biden has done.
Thanks for your comments. Yes, the next Census will now include NON-CITIZENS. That will skew the data for sure. Not sure how these folks will vote but surely Dems will reward them beforehand. (LA currently gives illegals full health care and $1,000/mo stipend as well as drivers’ licenses. Chicago gives them $15,000 per year. NYC spends $1.47 BILLION per year to house and feed illegals. Plus $53 million for debit cards. MASS will spend $116 MILLION in FY 2024 to house migrants. We also pay for their MassHealth and their education as Boston is a Right to Shelter city. Where is this money coming from?)
I’ve also read in the Wall Street Journal that Mexico is now our number 1 trading partner. Good and bad as we move away from depending on China. But also pits economic forces against current immigration laws. Guess who wins that contest?
Peter, I don’t believe you. Show a valid document to support your claim.
This report was on tv the other night. It was confirmed by the White House. Wish I had a pencil to write down the name of the program to share with readers here. Damn.
“The government characterizes these programs as “family reunification programs”.
The program at the center of the FOIA litigation is perhaps the most enigmatic and least-known of the Biden administration’s uses of the CBP One cell phone scheduling app, even though it is responsible for almost invisibly importing by air 320,000 aliens with no legal right to enter the United States since it got underway in late 2022. It remains part of the administration’s “lawful pathways” strategy, with its stated purpose being to reduce the number of illegal border entries between ports of entry. The countries whose citizens are eligible are Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Colombia, and Ecuador.
Under these legally dubious parole programs, aliens who cannot legally enter the country use the CBP One app to apply for travel authorization and temporary humanitarian release from those airports. The parole program allows for two-year periods of legal status during which adults are eligible for work authorization.”
Source: https://cis.org/Bensman/Government-Admission-Biden-Parole-Flights-Create-Security-Vulnerabilities-US-Airports
Source?
Albert and Mary–Saw the story on Fox News from a press conference by Gov. Abbott of Texas. He was speaking about the “secret” program by the Biden Administration to bypass the border and fly foreign citizens directly into the US, primarily Florida and NY. The program is called CHNV, where the flights originate (Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela.) There is a piece on this in today’s NY Post by Todd Bessman. He cites DHS figures that say at least 33,000 illegals were flown into the NY area in 2023. Overall, DHS has flown in over 386,000 illegals since January, 2023. This program is being run WITHOUT congressional authorization. (This is a typical end run by the Biden Administration, similar to its tuition loan plan…Biden trying again after a rejection by the Supreme Court.) We have a rogue president who is increasingly beholden to far left elements of the party, including anti-Zionist in order to gain votes in November. Shameful!
Carl– I will assume that you have been through an
airport after debarking a flight from a foreign
country. You went through immigration.
Immigration only cares about one thing.
Do you have the proper documents to enter the
United States ? Excuse me but that is called entering
the country legally. If they weren’t entering the country legally,
they would have been sent back on the next available plane.
Now, the radical right wing xenophobic extremist that posted
the opinion piece you referenced is entitled to be against
illegal immigration, or any immigration for that matter , but where
does he come off repeatedly stating that these people are
“inadmissible”? If one is inadmissible you are sent back—
pretty clear , right ?
It’s not like people get on a plane with no paperwork
and then get here and claim asylum.
Every one of these people who came through immigration in
a Floridian airport had to have legal documents– that means that they were
doing what they had to do to get here legally. What criteria does
this guy use to call these people “inadmissible” ?
Is it that they are brown or black ? They came from a s******e
country ? They are “poor” “uneducated” “infested with diseases”
“terrorist” “rapist” “animals” “drug smugglers” or any other
dog whistle ?
Right wingers often say they are not opposed to legal
immigration– but this guy whines about it, and uses a few
buzzwords and dog whistles while preaching to the choir.
But woe is Florida because it happens to be the hub for
the majority of flights coming from the Caribbean, central
America and South America.
You can do better– 😉
Don, I have been through customs and must show my valid passport. Are you telling me you actually believe that these so called refugees all have valid passports. Come on you can’t be that naive. When in our history of our country have we gone to pick up people in their countries and given them a free flight so they can claim asylum. Oh wait Afghanistan and some of those people didn’t even make it inside the plane. Think about that. We aren’t even making them come to our borders now, we are chartering flights to import them. How about the people entering the country illegally at the southern border? Are they being sent back on the next plane? No. They are being processed and released into the country because we have to place to hold them. They end up sleeping on the streets in various cities through the country. I honestly don’t think the people of MV get it. Maybe it’s time for a road trip to the real world to shake some sense into the leftist hypocrites. You do know that just wanting a better life and an opportunity to make money is not sufficient to emigrate to this country? That is the overwhelming reason why people are coming here and when they go before a judge, if they show up, after 8 years will be deported. Think about how cruel that is. False hope. The overwhelming amount of people claiming asylum will be deported after having kids here. Then the liberals will say how cruel that is and they should have a pathway to citizenship. The system is a joke and liberals want open borders but are afraid to run on it. I hope DeSantis sends more migrants to MV so they can see what people in all parts of the country are dealing with. Lastly, a lot of the people who are coming here are poor, unvaccinated, smuggle various contraband and are criminals. That’s a fact.
Don, you admonished me for blaming everything on liberals but I challenge you to stop blaming everything on “right wingers” and Trump. We all have are talking points such Jan6 insurrection but yet not one person was ever charged with insurrection. Not one. Nada. Because it wasn’t an insurrection. But we have a dope running for President that I will have to vote for who uses the people arrested and convicted of illegally rioting in the capital signing the national anthem to open up his rallies because the alternative is a disaster. When asked if you were better off four years ago the overwhelming response yes. Well at least in the real world which is any place other than bubble of MV.
Carl, I know a family who claims that Trump was better for their family financially, yet it was under the Biden administration when they were finally able to buy a big beautiful house, buy a really nice car, both the best, by far, that they have ever owned. The truth is in the pudding. Trump was a disaster, and he will be worse if he has the chance. How can anyone vote for, FOR, s. Assault, fraud, the biggest lies since Hitler, racism, and xenophobia. Most people I know are either immigrants or descendants from immigrants.
Please quit calling other people hypocrites.
Mary, please point me to where Trump was convicted in a court of law of those allegations. I’ll wait. He was tried and convicted by hypocrite liberals in the press who won’t cover Bidens alleged crimes. I’ll stop calling people hypocrites when they stop being hypocrites.
Carl, Trump lost a defamation case based on his s. assault of Ms Carroll. The jury found there was enough evidence of the s. assault for the judgment.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-ordered-to-pay-83-3-million-to-e-jean-carroll-by-monday-or-post-bond-judge.amp
Please don’t grab anybody by it that’s all.
Airports yes Keller but at the border NO. They are not sent back. Disingenuous as best
Our Border Patrol is nothing but a turnstile system to process illegals as fast as possible and pass them on…
How many got in under Trump?
far less than under the current president who has promoted anarchy since day one. I’m not a trump guy but have faith that he will do more to stop the invasion than this clown.
???
Interesting, Don, that you think calling other human beings “animals” is a whistle indicating prejudice. Animals notoriously froth at the mouth when rabid.
Sure, so do people, but “rabid animal” or “rabid dog” are the most vivid and frequently used descriptors. That’s the imagery these words conjure. Just like calling someone vermin.
It’s almost as if you have two sets of standards for how folks should be spoken about, depending on whether you like them.
Decency isn’t decency unless it’s universally applied.
It’s hard to listen to the lectures on faked compassion from anyone who has called half of America “maggots” for years. Dehumanizing and telling others how full of hate they are is fine among hypocrites and misogynists and antisemites. The cause de jour among many hypocrite liberals is getting ridiculous.
Since my name has been brought up in a thread where I had not yet participated, and where I am called an ignorant liar in a forum where personal attacks are not allowed, I will respond.
There seems to be some confusion about what antisemitism is. I will do my best to explain which examples of antisemitism I have seen appear in this newspaper’s comments and letters and hope that helps clear up why some specific statements about Israel and about my support for the indigenous homeland of the Jewish people are, in fact, antisemitic.
It is antisemitic to accuse Israel of committing genocide because it is a false accusation. It is written in Hamas’ charter that their end goal is to eradicate Israel and all Jews from the planet. That’s genocidal intent. The war started by Hamas this go-round was unprovoked and unwanted and it comes with promises of genocidal intentions from Hamas until Jews are no more. Israel has the moral right and obligation to stop this from happening.
Accusations against Israel of war crimes are false and antisemitic-based. At the same time, tragic errors that occur in war times, based on faulty intel, are not war crimes. No wars are above reproach, but as will be seen in future wars, urban warfare standards have increased because of how the IDF strives to conduct itself. Make no mistake, though, the horrors of war should be avoided but sometimes they simply cannot be.
It is a war crime to use hospitals, mosques, schools, civilian residences to embed weapons of war and plan and launch attacks. It is not a war crime to eliminate these military command centrals in order to defend one’s own civilians and borders. It is antisemitic to blame Israel for bombing Hamas embedded in hospitals after doing everything humanly possible to save patients and actual medical personnel.
It is antisemitic not to recognize that thousands of “innocent” Palestinians cheering the mutilated Jewish bodies of raped and tortured victims and of terrified Jewish hostages brought to Gaza on October 7th, as not so innocent. Neither is every international “help” organization that has still failed to condemn the savagery of Oct 7th. It is antisemitic to collude in any way with what Hamas wants, and/or to use the failures of world organizations as “proof” that the whole world is correct to be against Israel’s right to exist and defend itself.
The idea that Israel can indeed defend itself, but just not this hard, is the epitome of antisemitism.
It is a war crime to use one’s own civilians as shields and to regard their deaths as a war strategy to gain international support for their cause which is to eradicate Israel.
It is antisemitic to support the goals of Hamas, see them as freedom fighters, and march, rally, and protest along with other supporters of their “river to the sea” end goals.
It is antisemitic to accuse American Jews on college campuses, going to synagogue, or simply sitting at home and supporting Israel of these ancient blood libels, completely oblivious to the fact that’s what you’re doing. These blood libels include false accusations of supporting the genocide of innocent Palestinians, a wish to see Palestinian babies incinerated, and accusations, gaslighting, and bullying of Jewish people for “hating all Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, and non-Jews. That is undeniable antisemitism.
Antisemitic hate speech has long falsely accused Jewish people of only caring about their own tribe, a wish to kill non-Jewish babies, and an intent to do evil in the world. I personally have been lashed out against within these pages with these false accusations. That is antisemitic.
I’ll stop here even though there is much more that this newspaper has hosted. There have been so many lies about Israel, their intentions, and their right to exist, while at the same time an acceptance of Gazans as completely innocent victims of Israel (not Hamas) that I cannot begin to explain the international pressure put on Israel now except to compare it to the world’s reaction to the makings of the holocaust. The world allowed the holocaust, the same way antisemitic attitudes allow the lying, bullying, gaslighting, and even the violent words that quickly can become acceptance of violent actions in spaces and places, like this newspaper, far, far removed from the Jewish homeland.
Jackie– I have not seen a single comment here that denied the
horrors of Oct 7. Show me one.
I have also never seen a comment here that has stated that Israel does
not have the right to exist or defend itself.
You can believe that those comments exist , and continue to post
those untruths here and wherever you want.
You accuse me of anti-semitism and cite some things
as examples of anti-semitism — I have never said any of them.
Quite the contrary , I have condemned the atrocities of oct 7, acknowledged
that Hamas is a radical genocidal terrorist organization –I have acknowledge that
they hide amongst civilians, often in hospitals ,cower in tunnels that they built
with money that could have been used to improve the living conditions the people
of Gaza and have said their stated goal is the eradication of Israel.
Any questions about any of that ?
So that brings us to Israel.
I have stated that “I stand with Israel..,”
I have stated that Israel has a right to defend itself.
I have stated that israel has a right to exist.
Any questions about any of that ?
However , I do read and watch media other than Netanyahu’s
propaganda.
Sorry Jackie, it is not a Hamas lie that Israel
is wantonly disregarding the safety of innocents.
It is not a Hamas lie that over 30,000 people in Gaza have died.
It is not a Hamas lie that Israel has destroyed the medical system in Gaza
It is not a Hamas lie that IDF forces killed 3 young men who were
unarmed, shirtless and waving a white flag.
It is not a Hamas lie that IDF forces have bulldozed graveyards
and set up military outposts in those graveyards.
It is not a Hamas lie that children are starving to death and the
entire 2 million strong population is facing an imminent famine
because of a siege and a deliberate effort to starve them
into extinction.
It is not a Hamas lie that the IDF has shot hundreds of people waiting to
receive desperately needed food and water.
It is not a Hamas lie that IDF forces recently targeted 3 vehicles that were
clearly marked as World Central Kitchen vehicles—One after the other in 3 separate
attacks. It is clear that the effect of that will cause even more Palestinian
children to die of starvation as WCK immediately pulled out and is not delivering
live saving nutrition any more. Could Israel have chosen a better way to increase
the risk of starvation than to kill 7 innocent aid workers of the largest humanitarian
organization in Gaza ? But maybe– just maybe, they were not “innocent” in the
eyes of the military as they were giving aid to the enemy.
It is not a Hamas lie that Israel is creating a one km wide “security buffer”
along the entire border with Israel and has bulldozed thousands of residential
housing units in the process– Effectively moving Israel one KM closer to the sea
It is not a Hamas lie that Israel has also built a road “from the river to the sea”
does that term sound genocidal to you ?
Hamas may want to eradicate israel but israel IS eradicating Gaza.
it is not anti-semitic to criticize that– It is a normal reaction of human compassion.
And just on a more personal note, I am sure you know the meaning
of the word “ignorant”. When you say anything about me, it applies.
And it is a clear lie that I am in any way anti-semitic.
Anyone who knows me will attest to that.
That’s his story and he’s stickin’ to it. Not one word however to defend the false accusations about “chosen people” and other blood libel accusations leveled at me. Not a word of defending 6 months of it because he knows there is no defense.
Keller, how many Hamas fighters have died in Gaza? Why do you repeat what Hamas tells you? Does Israel’s “river to the sea” statement from yiu mean that Israel is an illegitimate country and should not exist? You seem to be contradiction your apparent lie that “Israel has a right to exist”. How do you explain the decades of Arab leaders refusing all offers, that Israel agreed to, of land for Palestinins because they won’t live around Jews? Did you think that horrible and illegal incidents in wars commited by some very bad people, be they American, Israeli, or any other of our allies, damns the whole country in a just war? Why glom onto that? Your long list here, Keller, I am afraid is ignorant and antisemitic. The river to the sea part just takes the cake. All I can gather from your mishmash is that in fact, yiu do not think Israel should exist at all because they don’t want their neighbors trying to kill them every five minutes. Is that your solution to the “Middle East Problem”? Sound like the Final Solution justification to me. You do know, but never mention, that every Palestinian child is radicalized and taught it is a blessing to kill as many Jews as possible. Sounds like you agree with what Hamas and every Islamic extremist wants.
“I have also never seen a comment here that has stated that Israel does not have the right to exist or defend itself.”
So you missed the numerous calls for a permanent ceasefire on Israel’s side of things, without any hint of suggestion as to how they will survive afterwards?
You missed the opinion piece in which the Ceasefire Now guy announced that Israel should be dismantled?
I’d say telling a country to put down all of its weapons is clearly the same as saying they’re not entitled to a physical defense. What’s left to keep Hamas at bay?
You are so eager to discredit Jackie and make it appear as if she’s making stuff up that it seems you don’t think through what you’re saying.
Having to explain, define, and defend the ultra-obvious is getting old. This is gaslighting 101. If a gaslighter can’t defeat you with his actual words or actions, he’ll just wear you out.
Sadly, it often works. A person who attempts to stay based in logic can only take, and tackle, so much contradiction and denial of reality.
Truer words were never spoken, Katie, about what was attempted to do to me on these pages, by a person who goes to the lengths you describe. I don’t mind admitting that some of these described tactics were damaging to me, which I suppose was what was wanted. Blaming me with “revenge-lies” to demean my character for exposing when antisemitism-in-denial is present and proven is never a good idea– especially when Katie Lane is on it! “Thank you” does express my gratitude enough, but thank you, my dear. There’s no one like you.
Online bullying takes all forms. It should not be allowed, especially in a moderated forum.
Jackie, then I take it you agree with Bibi’s heartless comments and cavalier attitude about the tragic deaths of the World Central Kitchen workers? They’re just. “Unavoidable casualties of war”, right? Amazing that the IDF can target the Iranians so adroitly in Syria and yet blunder so badly in attacking three previously approved well-marked aid vehicles. Personally I think the US should stop.supporting the Israel government with money and military equipment. Israel, after all, has the 49th largest GNP in the world.
Your incorrect assumption about what I think and feel, Sara, is quite something. I already referred to it, if you’d bothered to read my longer comment before you said some so incorrect. Why would you assume that a Jewish woman supporting Israel’s right to exist and defend itself does not grieve for aid workers tragically and accidentally killed in Gaza? Who makes outrageous, ugly assumptions about how Jews think and feel, not caring about non-Jewish deaths?
I must have missed your outrage against Hamas for the savage mutilations and rapes and torture and murders of October 7th. But thank you for taking the time to falsely accuse me here of not caring about dedicated people trying to help but are tragically killed.
Do you know what an antisemitic trope is? Milking the tragic consequences of war, only when Israel is at fault for a particular incident, while ignoring the 19 Jewish female hostages being raped and tortured as we sit here and disagree, is the problem, Sara. It’s the problem with this acceptable and unacknowledged antisemitism: always thinking the worst about Jews who dare to stand up against Jew hatred coming from all directions, especially here from the liberal left.
It remains an antisemitic trope to falsely accuse a Jew of only caring about Jewish deaths. Your comment, appearing out of the woodwork, is self explanatory. I won’t wait for your apology.
Ms Crafts, you are implying that Israel purposely targeted the aid workers. Is that what you mean? Tell us please.
Thank you, Andrew. I don’t know if my response will get posted, but I hope more people confront Sara’s outrageous comment head on, like you have.
andy– I am quite disappointed that the Times chose not to post my longer comment. Perhaps because I laid it all out with some details,
and included my opinion about their motivation for this
deliberate attack on WFC aid workers.
But, I certainly think Israel deliberately targeted those vehicles.
Any more questions ?
Engelman, that is what we all know. Aid gives people hope.
That has been confirmed.
You kill aid workers, you kill hope.
“…I take it you agree with Bibi’s heartless comments and cavalier attitude…”
Why would you leap to this conclusion, Sara? Jackie wrote a nuanced, detailed take on the nature of war, and you went straight to assuming something that wasn’t reflected within her actual words. That says more about your motives than hers.
“Personally I think the US should stop.supporting the Israel government with money and military equipment.”
To me, this indicates a lack of understanding about how that support functions. While I am not in the mood to do anyone’s homework, it’s a two-way street. The U.S. benefits from its military relationship with Israel. Did you think we were being generous?
I’ve found Americans love the security provided by our military and want to keep it that way. Many locals, in particular, luxuriate on their sleepy, curated island, hiding away from tourists and real-world troubles. They don’t want to think much about how that security is achieved. Not really.
I’m going to stop myself before I start reciting Jack Nicholson’s lines in A Few Good Men.
Jackie is correct in saying that her concern for Israel is more heavily attacked and policed than mine or anyone else’s. By far. Simply because folks here know she is Jewish. It’s awful. It doesn’t matter how well she expresses something if no one will read it for what it is. So much bias.
Jackie– If you look at my comment I simply said “I don’t like it when ignorant
people lie about my opinions.” I did not call you ignorant or a liar.
If you think that applies to you, well you are entitled to your opinion.
You know better than me.
You on the other hand have gotten away with calling me an
anti semite. Perhaps you never worded it that way. But let’s be fair.
It’s all in the “careful” wording, right ?
And which do you think is the worse thing to be called ?
Which is the worst slander ?
Ignorant or anti-semitic ?
We are all ignorant about some things–
As long as you don’t grab them by it why are you so filled with hate?
Jerome– the only hate I see is coming from someone
who thinks anyone who disagrees with the military
operation in Gaze is an anti-semite and a liar.
You gotta have a lot of hate somewhere in your
heart to condone the slaughter and forced famine
of a population of 2 million people.
Everyone who disagrees with me is an antisemite? EVERYONE? There have been 3 people who are spouting antisemitic views, and now, 4. That’s hardly “everyone” who disagrees with me. But you’re right in that many people are latently antisemitic. They unawares spout tropes and dog whistles and have no clue they are being pro Hamas and anti Zionist/Usrael/Jewish. The only reason someone might object to me pointing out antisemitism and explaining why, and say untrue things about me, is that they cannot defend their antisemitic views. And so they attack me. That’s called gaslighting.
Keller the fact that you call it slaughter and forced famine of 2 million makes you anti semitic.
Hey some people like pickles instead of cucumbers. Uh?
Jackie, names please.
Slander is spoken.
Libel is written.
Here, we write.
Both are irrelevant when the accusation can be proven by fairly objective means, such as referencing a dictionary or the Terms of Service.
Unfortunately Jackie, this war will get worse with Biden now abandoning Israel. It offends me that he uses the Israeli strike that mistakingly killed civilians as his line in the sand. Well I guess his dementia kicked in since he forgot he did the same thing in Afghanistan.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/military-releases-videos-august-drone-strike-killed-civilians/index.html
And the icing on the cake is no one lost their job because of but he wants to hold Israel accountable? A total failure in leadership.
The Editorial ”Reflections in the Holy Land in time of war” carefully hidden in the ”Community” section while a thoughtful attempt, also contains important errors and claims including two rejoinders from Jackie and Engelman. Put it out in the open and let the naysayers have at it.
Andrew, The level of MV’s acceptable antisemitism and assumptions about “immoral” Jews blows my mind. Your comment under the “reflections” essay was excellent. I did write a response to it, thanking you, but it didn’t make it in, so thank you again.
I don’t believe the important issue of immigration should be hijacked here, but it’s been impossible to ignore the liberal left’s disconnect in their failure to see themselves behaving toward the “Jewish/israel question” similarly to how Trump incites hate about undocumented immigrants.
For those worried about me not grieving enough for non-Jewish innocents and heroes, I have been in a state of mourning since October 7. I can count on one hand the number of MV commenters who give a fig.
Love is love is love, but hate is hate is hate.
Jackie– In your opinion , I did not come out in full support of
Israel soon enough for you. At this point in the war, I think the Israeli
government is headed by a sociopath that the people of Israel
elected. He is guilty of war crimes not seen on a scale since the nazi’s
occupied Europe and perpetrated the Holocaust.
(not the citizens of israel and certainly not Jews in general) I ,after all ,think there are
innocent Israelis.
We all know you have been in a state of mourning since
oct 7 but you have never once mentioned that you were grieving
for anyone but Jews. I have condemned the actions of hamas on oct 6 .
I don’t think you ever said a word about the actions of Russia in Ukraine
The reality is, had you done so, I might not think you couldn’t give a fig
about the thousands of innocent Ukrainian babies that were incinerated
as they slept.
andy —-I have a somewhat unrelated question for you .
Is it appropriate for a woman to use the term “give a fig” ?
We all know what she means. Who would she give figs to ?
Starving Palestinians perhaps ? Not likely…
Speaking of immigration, how many people have immigrated to Israel since it’s founding?
How have they treated the indigenous population?
Monotheists slaughtering monotheists over who has the better understanding of the one true God, hard to give a fig.
The current conflict is pure mutual hate. May the best God win.
There is no reason to publicly try to belittle or harass me with false accusations of having a “cavalier attitude” toward the death of innocents in wartime— or peacetime. No reason except that I am a proud Jew who mourns the October 7 massacre and wants Hamas destroyed and the hostages released. There is no reason to publicly harass and falsely accuse me, for the last 6 months, of hating all non-Jews, all Arabs, all Palestinians, all Muslims, and supporting non-existent Israeli war crimes and genocides and the “live incineration of Palestinian babies”, except for the ancient Jew-hatred of faulting anyone Jewish for their Jewish wish that their people thrive and live in peace.
Antisemitic words matter. It remains a signal of hatred of Jews when people accuse me of holding beliefs I simply do not carry in my heart, and for no reason other than I am a Jew standing up for Israel’s right to exist and protect itself from the promises of annihilation.
No one has accused the 3 non-Jewish Israel supporters who contribute to these discussions of harboring such vile and untrue hatred’s against innocents. That distinction was reserved solely for the Jew, a non-observant Jew who has never been to Israel and has never held a wish for harm to any innocent human bring on earth.
Antisemites accuse me, loudly and proudly, of being a person I am not, as is Palestinians in this thread. And then they pretend they are not promoting the oldest hatred in the world.
I find it hard to believe that I am told in black and white here that I am cavalier about the death of heroes. Is there anyone foolish enough to explain why false accusations of singling me out as being an evil Jew is not antisemitic harassment?
There are 2 sides in this war against evil. Israel is the good and yes, imperfect side, like it or not.
Do islanders know that Jewish college students are harassed like this, and worse? Why is harassment of Jews okay with anyone?
An antisemite might ask the question: what’s worse? Being called an ignorant liar or being called an antisemite? Antisemites are ignorant liars, and apparently utterly unaware that their core views of Jewish folks are as anciently antisemitic as the hills.
Jackie– if even only once you had expressed any concern for anyone
who is not Jewish on these pages, I would not think you didn’t give
a fig.
How would I know that you so deeply cared about the innocent
slaughter of Ukrainians and didn’t fully support the Russian dictator.
Even right here, in your most recent comment, you do not bother
to take the opportunity to actually say anything that would indicate that
you in anyway cared about Ukrainians or anyone else. You just took
the opportunity to lash out at people who disagree with your views about the
massacre that is unfolding in Gaza.
And I guess you missed the stories about harassment and violence against
people of Arabic descent for worshiping their god in this country,
“if even only once you had expressed any concern for anyone
who is not Jewish on these pages…” ~Keller
I have many times ended my dozens and dozens of Israel/Gaza comments with variations of “May all innocents be safe and comforted”. I never said or implied or lived my life in this world that I wished only Jews to be safe or that I have no concern or caring for non-jewish people. That’s just insane.
I should not have to again defend myself from repeated antisemtic tropes such as:” Jews only care about their own tribe.” These false statements have been assigned to me in libelous (thanks, Katie!) personal attacks and bullying accusations against me for 6 months, including some pretty unsober-sounding attacks.
A reputation as an antisemite is made and proven by the antisemite, not by me.
Antisemites cook their own goose in that regard.
Katie Lane, who is not Jewish, has written clearly and concisely objecting to some of the ugly and antisemtic assertions the Times sees fit to post or publish. I will leave off the direct antisemtic quote from one such antisemite, but it was clearly the most disgusting antisemtic words that I have ever seen in this paper.
Katie Lane wrote:
“I try not to criticize this paper too often or too harshly because I understand it’s not an easy job. Still, I find the above (deleted quote) to be beyond the pale and don’t feel it should’ve been published on a moderated forum.
I cannot imagine the Times would allow someone to characterize Muslims in such a stereotypical, inflammatory way, nor would I want to see that. Why is this acceptable to direct at Jews?”
Attempts to deflect or change the current conversation to other issues not being discussed never helps antisemitism look less antisemtic. No matter how many times an antisemite keeps at that tactic.
I hope the naive citizens of MV will take a few minutes to educate themselves by reading a fry recent news stories that I have posted links to. Another illegal immigrant rapes a 14 year old in MA. This shortly afeter an illegal Haitian migrant rapes a disabled girl in MA. Please read where the Federal law enforcement agencies are blaming sanctuary governments for purposely not cooperating with them allowing this lawless to continue.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/illegal-immigrant-charged-horrific-child-sex-crime-arrested-ice-after-cops-let-him-go
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/governor-maura-healey-rockland-migrant-rape-corey-alvarez-federal-program/
Please just read two more about these illegals squatting in a home with guns and dope across the street from a school then let go with no bail. Guns and drugs recovered!
https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/us-news/gun-toting-bronx-migrant-squatters-were-in-custody-but-set-free-because-processing-centers-were-crowded-officials/
And finally take a look at how our fentanyl problem is destroying our way of life in our big cities and around the country. It’s like walking through zombie land. The people of MV would never stand for this on Circuit Ave so why is ok for the rest of the country?
https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/opinion/up-close-and-too-personal-with-americas-fentanyl-epidemic-where-new-york-is-ground-zero/
So those who post frequently here spouting off on how right wingers are so evil and are against the migrants because they are black and brown, take a road trip from your liberal utopia and walk among the crime and squalor in the rest of the country where communities have been destroyed. If you are not willing to open up shelters on MV, stop the virtue signaling and blaming the conservatives. Offering a room in your home for a few days knowing full well the migrants were being packed up and shipped off does not come close to the long term shelters that are overflowing in once peaceful neighborhoods. MV got called out by DeSantis and got embarrassed on the national stage. That’s a fact.
Well said. I salute Gov. Desantis for helping spread the incredible burden of taking in migrants/illegals. He was one of the first politicians to show Blue America the serious long term implications of the Biden Administration’s dangerous Open Borders policy. He helped educate the nation that indeed, all 50 states are now “border states.”
Carl. Once again you make some good points and present some
anecdotal incidents where an “illegal” squatted.
Do you think this is solely an “illegals” problem ?
If you look at the stories that fox puts up, most of them
are homeless us citizens– some even veterans.
But the ones’ they really hammer are the ones involving
immigrants. Perhaps 4 cases in the last 6 months. I can only find 2.
But you are likely more tuned in to the right wing echo chambers
that could find more cases. How about taking a look and letting me
know? Thanks
But I think for the most part, the whole squatters thing is partisan
propaganda
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/04/03/squatters-rise-florida-ny-georgia/
And by the way, when I went to the church to offer my guest room
I had no idea they were going to be moved. It was a sincere offer
motivated by compassion.
Don, thank for reading my comment. Why do you think Fox is an echo chamber? I take it for what it is which the other side of the story. Unfortunately the bigger problem is a biased media that is overwhelmingly Democrats.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/dec/30/only-34-us-journalists-are-republicans-survey/
For years only one channel reported the devastation at the southern border while the others totally ignored it. If I wasn’t for DeSantis it would still be buried. I can make the same argument that you live in your own echo chamber with watching the likes of NBC and ABC. This tolerant group bounced the former RNC Chair just so they could control the narrative. There are huge stories that they either parroted from the DNC or buried. Russia collusion, the dossier, Hunters laptop, Covid. And these are the ones that they had to admit to getting wrong. But it’s too late for a retraction the damage has been done. We don’t have a mainstream media that reports unbiased news. The crime is real off the island, the migrant crisis is real off the island, the squatters is real off the island. Are you familiar with the soacial media sites that advocate squatting for migrants? We should be asking why would a respectable news organization make light of squatting? Of course if you’re not dealing with it on a daily basis you could think it is propoganda. The left can’t admit this is a problem because if they do they will drive independents to Trump.
Don, not to pile on the rabbit but you are very offended by being called an antisemite and you fight like heck to clear your name. And you should. However, you have thrown a few stones yourself by implying that people are somehow racist because they want a secure border.
“Is it that they are brown or black ? They came from a s******e
country ? They are “poor” “uneducated” “infested with diseases”
“terrorist” “rapist” “animals” “drug smugglers” or any other
dog whistle ?”
You have come down pretty hard on Trump supporters and grouped them all together and painted them with the same brush and who have often had to fight back against being called all sorts of vile things that aren’t true. The dog whistle that you speak of is that if you can’t win the argument on the merits resort to name calling. Both sides are guilty but I think you are feeling it for the first time. Kind of sucks doesn’t it?
Anyway, like I have said before I think you are patriot who has served this country, although you downplay it, and you are a generous person. I do not doubt your willingness to help your fellow man. Raman Keller.
andy– editorials are right there where they always are–
just because you comment on one does not mean they
should post it somewhere more visible .
Katie, thank you so much for your kind words and support. Just saw your comment. It’s shocking to me that this has gone on in a place and among people I clearly misunderstood over decades. Happily, a few people, non-Jewish people I don’t know, have contacted me privately thru Facebook messenger, too, to offer their support and to decry what Jewish people all over are up against these days. The personal harassment and hate in this paper when I object to antisemitic comments, letters, guest editorial, and spiritual messages have been horrible. Comments and letters and “spiritual essays” that are clearly contain the definition of antisemitic untruths are published by this newspaper for reasons I cannot fathom. Most of my responses to them are blocked. I’m surprised that so many of my comments made it in this go-round. When time passes and it looks like I’ve been blocked by the moderator, I will sometimes try again with reworded comments. Mostly I just give up and come to my own conclusions as to why I am so frequently censored. In fairness to the moderator, sometimes my comments do contain a personal attack so I understand why the whole thing had to go. Mostly however, I don’t have a clue why I am blocked from addressing the most disgusting antisemitic lies and personal harassment that is nothing short of gaslighting.
I will not stop fighting any antisemitic arguments and untruths against Israel when I see them. It’s a full-time job in this newspaper. As to the lies about who I am, what I think, and who I “hate”, I would ask the moderator and the publisher to think about what damage you’re doing to the Jewish community by hosting the hurtful lies generated directly from Islamic extremist sources and filtered through supposedly well-meaning tolerant people who in fact are helping Hamas achieve their vile goals.
It is so obvious: it’s not Israeli policies people hate, it’s Jews. American Jews and American Jewish businesses and organizations are all fair targets now of antisemitic hate and demeaning lies, like “You hate everyone who isn’t a Jew” and “You support genocide and war crimes”.
There’s no question of antisemitic bullying and harassment in these pages—- and in most places now.
“We all know you have been in a state of mourning since
oct 7 but you have never once mentioned that you were grieving for anyone but Jews.” — Don’s latest characterization of Jackie.
Meanwhile, here is just a small sampling of what Jackie has actually said about caring for the non-Jews involved. Took me about five minutes to find this stuff, proving that the truth is out there for those who value fairness and honesty.
I won’t be posting links because they make the thread go wonky.
“Bring home the hostages. Demand Hamas surrender. May all innocents be comforted and protected.”
“There will continue to be humanitarian pauses for Israel to assist the innocent Palestinian civilians in the evacuations they have urged and accompanied.”
“May every hostage be released, may all innocents be protected and comforted.”
“You can’t even donate money to innocent civilians in Gaza because Hamas takes it. Imagine if they spent a fraction of the costs of building and training to obliterate Jews instead on improving conditions in Gaza.”
“Don’t get me wrong, civilians in Gaza should be spared, as should the kidnapped hostages there. If there’s a way now, I hope something is negotiated for these innocents.”
“May all the innocents be protected. May those grieving unspeakable loss find comfort from the sources all over the world they may not even know are there for them.”
“I agree civilian loss in a war or humanitarian crisis is always tragic…”
“I hope there will be a two state solution in my lifetime.”
Reading is fundamental. The woman some would like to portray her as bears no resemblance to the person Jackie has shown herself to be via her own words.
This was an attempt at deflection. When people cannot excuse their own prejudice, they try to turn the tables. Clumsy.
Katie Lane, once again I commend you for your eloquence. Dont know what you do for a living but you are a wonderful wordsmith. A real gift that will never be taken away from you. thank you
Katie’s eloquence and ability to see exactly what’s gone on in these pages is extraordinary. I’m certainly grateful to her. Thank God for truth tellers who explain what is a straightforward TRUTH—
To bring this back to MV, the thing where everyone patted themselves on the back for the next six months after being decent human being for a few days and shipping the Venezuelan, um, migrants, to somewhere was really a chuckle. As if when push came to shove…it was a nice few days and a gentle shove…off this island. For those who say, “but we don’t have any housing here! We don’t have the services!” Bingo. You are making Ron’s point. Florida is no different. Or is it? And to be clear, he is on my list of least favorite politicians, ever. But I get the concept. So does Boston, NYC, etc. today. Cities that stood tall when immigration was a hypothetical cause are drowning in the reality Texas deals with daily. Their solutions aren’t the ones I’d come up with, either.
Very well said Mr. Stanley and thank you for your comment. It’s funny how those on MV don’t seem to think illegal immigration is a problem since they don’t have to deal with it. This is MV’s “let them eat cake” moment.
Carl, no, this isn’t a “let them eat cake” moment. We have enough resources for everyone. This is a propaganda moment.
It’s the mentality of the liberal left. Let someone else pay for it, deal with it, allow them to say they “helped”, whether it’s housing, immigration, energy sources, climate, windmills, etc, as long as these “compassionate” people aren’t exposed as the pick and choose hypocrites they are in what they support in their “causes” du jour. No group has done and said more to ensure a Trump win. Dems are leaving the “party” in droves.
What are the names of the Islanders who shipped the escapees from Communist Venezuela off Island.
Yes, well said. Now EVERY state is a border state. I predicted all of this in the first weeks of the Biden Administration. It was obvious that this was quite possible. What is his goal? To what end? New Democrat voters? Gaining US Latino voters? Increasing the welfare state? Busting state budgets? Overruning schools and hospitals? Increasing violent crime? Helping the Mexican Drug cartels? Fentynal distributors? Why? I just don’t get it.
Thomas,
We have enough jobs for everyone.
We have enough food for everyone.
We have enough electricity for everyone.
This “problem” with immigration isn’t real. It’s made up by radical right-wing politicians to scare people.
The US unemployment rate is the lowest it’s been since the early 1960s.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianweller/2024/02/05/the-labor-market-has-a-way-to-go-to-full-employment/?sh=1577b8b227cd
Government statistics regarding unemployment
https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
We have the same percentage of illegal immigrants here on MV as they do in Florida, about 20 percent. We just cope with it better here than the Florida governor did, by treating them with compassion and respect. Also, we didn’t ship the migrants off, we found adequate housing for them within our community on Cape Cod. That was the best solution for everyone. What would you have done differently? What was the viable alternative? Take them into our homes? Everyone is entitled to their privacy, including illegal migrants and people who live on MV. There is a word for people who criticize others for not doing the things that they themselves are unwilling to do.
How many legal citizens kidnap rape molest and murder children in our country every day?
Crossing the border from north or south doesn’t make you a bad person.
Looking at January 6th and the horrific assault on government employees who serve to protect.
Plenty of pointing of fingers to go around.
Bad people are everywhere.
Very true Brenda. Charles Manson was born in Ohio, but we don’t judge all Americans by his example. Crime statistics show that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes per capita than people who were born here.
3million jews have immigrated to Israel since 1948. No mutual hate Hess. One way hate towards Jews for 3 thousand years.
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