After learning that the cheapest design for the Martha’s Vineyard Regional High School building project would cost around $200 million, school leadership is considering downsizing plans.
School Committee members charged with overseeing the preliminary design of a new or renovated high school reviewed about two dozen possible designs for the project, and they ranged from $197 million on the low end of a renovation to over $400 million for a completely new building.
Seeing the high cost of a new building, school officials discussed ways to reduce square footage, including by cutting from plans some dedicated spaces for existing programs, such as a new indoor track.
The review of the designs is the latest step in a years-long process to update a more than 60-year-old school building in need of an update. The designs are also preliminary, and subject to change.
The Massachusetts School Building Association (MSBA), a quasi-independent government authority, reimburses school projects at around 30 percent. The association accepted the high school into its program last year after six years of attempts.
At Tuesday’s meeting, committee members also expressed interest in reaching out to each of the Vineyard’s towns to find out how much they would be comfortable contributing to the building project.
The 25-member school building committee received preliminary plans and associated costs two weeks ago from project partner Tappé Architects. The committee voted nearly unanimously to complete the preliminary design phase of the project by sending a batch of rough draft school designs to the MSBA.
Completing this preliminary phase did not involve any determinations of the project’s final design. This step is instead meant to show that the district has been fully informed of and is aware of the range of available options.
The next phase will be the preferred schematic report, due by April, which will include a determination of overall project costs.
The committee did, however, reject and decide not to move forward with three of the preliminary plans for addition-and-renovation projects. Those designs, members noted, would have taken nearly four years to construct, and would cost between $350 million and $425 million.
Tappé Architects showed the high school building committee a list of 19 preliminary designs on Tuesday, explaining that the building association requires the committee to submit at least one of each type of project — one renovation, one addition-and-renovation, and one for a completely new school. For multiple designs for a completely new school, Tappé also estimated total costs of around $400 million each.
The cheapest design was the only renovation presented, and it came with estimated total costs of $197 million to $223 million. It was the smallest design presented, at 165,000 gross square feet.
It was also the only design at risk of not being accepted by the MSBA for reimbursement, if it does not meet state square-footage standards.
Square footage is a key factor in the designs’ price tags, with estimated costs of around $1,200 per square foot. And a key reason for the plans’ size, Tappé principal Chris Blessen explained, is that the high school will need to bring rooms up to state spacing standards in order to qualify for reimbursement.
Most of the high school’s current classrooms, Tappé said, do not meet the state’s minimum size requirements. And space for the school’s Career Technical Education (CTE) programs, which the committee included in a project education plan created this summer, would also need to be increased to meet state space standards.
After Tappé’s presentation, district and school leadership expressed interest in reducing the project’s square footage, which could involve revisiting its education plan, and re-evaluating which spaces the project will add to the high school.
“My concern … is our ability to actually afford this building. And more important than anything is getting a yes across our six towns to move a project forward,” said district Superintendent Richie Smith on Tuesday. “If the education plan is driving that, we may need to pre-emptively start looking at that,” he added.
The education plan informed the square footage in Tappé’s designs, and was created with a historical understanding of the high school in mind, as well the school’s future class size and programming needs.
Principal Sara Dingledy noted that the school could consider amending plans for its technical education program.
“Hypothetically, you take a CTE program, and you say, ‘Now, we’re not going to push for the CTE designation, we’re going to teach that in a classroom, and not have the lab space,’ right? That saves significant square footage,” she said.
She added that the school could reconsider providing dedicated spaces for other existing programs. Plans for an additional gym, a dance or yoga studio, or a career center for students not going to college could also be amended to save on square footage.
Adding an indoor track for the school’s track program is also aspirational. “That’s something maybe we don’t add, especially since the [YMCA], I think, is probably building one in a few years,” she said.
Meeting state standards for class sizes is another factor in project square footage. The state requires a minimum of 825 square feet for a classroom of 24 students, and a maximum of 950 feet. Blessen told the committee that Tappé could review individual classrooms in its designs, and figure out the maximum occupancy allowed in each room. State standards for science rooms are also larger than those for regular classrooms, at around 1,400 square feet.
“The current standards for science rooms just don’t match what this building was built for,” Blessen added.
With the preliminary design program submitted, the committee can now edit its design options. It can also choose to add new structures to a renovation design.
Blessen also recommended that the committee meet more often to determine what it can afford in terms of money and time, and which designs to move forward with.
The committee forewent the option on Tuesday to pause and further consider whether to submit the preliminary designs, as it could have decided to attempt a vote in two months’ time. But delaying the submission, Blessen said, would increase overall project costs.
Blessen also said on Tuesday that all labor to construct the project would come from off-Island, as no on-Island contractors are certified for Division of Capital Asset Management and Maintenance standards.
The school building committee meeting can be viewed in full here.
$1,200 per square foot, is way out of line and could only be on MV where everything is out of wack. Why do we accept these prices.
We are not over a barrel.
We are an Architectural firm and design schools for NYC and surrounding suburbs.
Approximately $400 is the average cost for a new school here, in NY!!
According to a study by School Construction News, the average cost per square foot for high school construction in the U.S. is approximately $400.
Gouging at its finest.
How many municipal projects have you done in Mass. Pretty sure Mass procurement laws create this problem.
Ask Chilmark, ask Edgartown, ask OB, ask Tisbury. They have all had projects in the past couple of years. NY doesn’t have to barge everything or deal with the steamship for materials. There are zero contractors on island that can cover the insurance required or have the manpower to do a job like this. How many sheet rockers would it take. How many electricians. Those numbers of people don’t live here. And they have their own companies and work. Imported labor and materials cost a whole lot more. Btw. Not so bad to put them up in hotels that are open in the winter but nobody will pay summer rates for the trades in the summer. That’s how you get to those big numbers.
Are you in the process of submitting a much lower bid.
As low as $600 per square foot?
A $200 gouge for you?
Is it worth it?
Without even really studying the plan, I was sure there was a lot of unnecessary duplication of facilities. We already have on the island and then there it was. “Plans for an additional gym, a dance or yoga studio, or a career center for students not going to college could also be amended to save on square footage” it seems all these committees that Design public spaces always have dreams of Granger with public money. None of them building with their own money would add such waste to the project.
Does the Island have too much gym space?
Should the high school have dance studio?
Students going to college do not need a career center, they know what they want to do.
Students not going to college need a career center to select a trade.
We the people elect the school committees who appoint the building committees.
Should that change.
Should they be appointed by the Governor (Maura Healy)?
Would you have been OK with Baker doing the appointing of school building committees?
Was too much spent on the first MVRHS?
What should have been cut?
The Gym?
The Career Center?
A hundred million here, a hundred million there, and before you know it
we’re talking about real money. My question is why is this necessary ?
I’m already on the hook for the tisbury school to the tune of $100 a month for the
next 30 years. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for funding education, but
there seems to be line between education and “comfort buildings”.
A swimming pool and a tennis court– all in the name of athletics
would be nice. Even more nicer
if the football field could be enclosed and air conditioned.
But– the school has a building trades program– If we need some extra
classrooms because the state decided that students can’t get within
“X” number of feet from each other, ( why did they decide that ? ) let the building trades do most of the work
to build extra classrooms. Do we really need every classroom to have
12x 16 I beams and reinforced concrete walls? What the fence is wrong with a
poured on grade slab,
walls built out of 2×6’s and a roof built out of 2×10’s that students build and
learn while doing it ?
Somewhere along the line, reality should have a
seat at the table.
Don you are always a pleasure to read. You normally do great research.
There are Mass laws about who can work on municipal buildings.
The architect of record covered this in the article.
Sue– Yeah, there are those laws– that’s part of the
problem. I understand that laws and building codes are
there for a reason, but common sense should be allowed to
squeeze in occasionally. About 25 years ago I helped build
the building that is between the school and the football field.
We were fully insured and knew what we were doing.
We charged reasonable wages. And it’s fine.
The basics of construction haven’t changed since then. What
has changed is that people in offices somewhere who
likely have never driven a
nail into a piece of wood decided that only
certain people can work on municipal buildings.
I am sure that the majority of workers on any municipal
project are not top craftspersons. They are manual labor
workers that the state mandates get paid exorbitant wages which the contractors mark up a certain percentage.
I agree that
we shouldn’t put the kids to work on the large and
complicated or dangerous aspects of whatever plan they come up,
but really ?
Why not let them have at it with doing some of the work on some extra
classrooms ? It’s not rocket surgery, after all, and with proper supervision
it would be done right. We built the ag hall in West Tisbury with
a lot of volunteer labor. As a liberal, I have little problem
with most regulations, but some are just plain stupid. There should
be some kind of appeal process in the name of common sense
and community participation. It would be a learning experience for the students
and a source of pride in the community that they would carry
their whole lives. I certainly feel that when I go past the ag hall.
Thanks for the compliment, BTW —
If we want any reimbursement money from the Massachusetts School Building Association (MSBA), unfortunately they will dictate what the classroom sizes and what is reimbursable or not.
Yeah Don!!! Keep going!! This is pure Common Sense!!
However, Common Sense does not seem to be part of the requirement to be a school architect, as they have so clearly demonstrated with every Vineyard school project so far.
What’s it going to take for us to do what we know is best for us and our kids??
How many of us are thinking along these lines? How about we get together to brainstorm!
I wonder how much money was wasted trying to get a plastic field approved?
And you still need that new track! Guess we all have our collective heads in the sand. Which part of the report did you not read with regards to the failing facility. That is just plain public knowledge.
I wonder how much money was wasted trying to get the grass field approved?
OK ISLANDERS TIME FOR THE HARD TALK. If the island was one town we could afford the school. which is to say there is enough taxable realeaste on the island to support the school.
Problem is the youth of the island are not spread evenily over the whole island. So some towns have lots of kids and not so much taxable realeaste. other towns have lots of real easte and few kids.
The childern are for the most part living with their parents who perform services that support the whole island community. It is time that the entire island community support the education of those children equally.
Not Just in the building of the school, but in its yearly operating budget going forward.
If your in a town with lots of taxable real estate and not many kiddos and you think this is an unreasonable plan, perhaps you should consider what it would cost to build a high school and operate it, with all the services opportunities provided at MVRHS, just for your town.
Pooling our resources is much for affordable for all.
It will be hard, I’m pretty darn Clannish myself, but we must do what we must for our children.
Time to be one island, united we stand divided we fail.
R Scott, answer, a lot.
I’m aghast that cutting vocational space on this island was even mentioned! Vocational/technical schooling is essential!
What Susan said.
How many Islanders want their kids to be HSD tradesmen?
What Susan said
I would agree with a number as high as $400M if it would also include all the elementary school kids. K-12
Is it time to consider private ownership of municipal buildings, like the high school, with a lease-back model to the district? Imagine a B Corp or other benevolent entity dedicated to building and maintaining these facilities with sustainable, manageable fees.
Typically, real estate is viewed as an investment that can be sold for profit when needs change. Municipalities, however, usually do not have this luxury. They typically hold on to buildings, many times challenged with cutting maintenance budgets until the problem requires a capital expenditure to fix, sometimes repurposing for other uses, but rarely selling off the asset.
Current staff members manage building issues alongside their primary roles, creating inefficiencies. By shifting ownership to a dedicated entity, we could streamline maintenance and control rising budgets. Municipalities are challenged with complex procurement and other regulations when it comes to projects like this. While this would not be an effort to circumvent safeguards, allowing the private sector to do what they do best could produce a superior building and it would allow the district staff to do what they do best, educating our kids.
With all our efforts to make MV a place where we strive for people to have affordable opportunities to be a part of the community, wouldn’t it be ironic that the costs for housing our schools could drive our tax burden out of reach for many.
I am sure this idea will be discounted by most (if not all), but maybe one of our great universities in MA could do a deep dive on this and see if there are any elements of this that might help all towns facing these costly decisions.
Privately owned schools?
Like privately owned owned hospitals?
Like Steward Medical Group?
“Steward, which is based in Dallas, recently filed for bankruptcy. Federal prosecutors at the U.S. Attorney’s office in Boston are investigating Steward Health Care based on various allegations including fraud and violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, two people familiar with the matter said.”
Cooperate greed.
No thank you.
Same with prisons.
Terrible idea.
Woody, never. I’ve watched how that works out—never in the best interest of the consumer.
Cut, cut, cut. That is not the answer. Can we take a look at the big picture for a change? If you have ever been to the high school you will see that it is used constantly, and not just by the high school kids. There are classrooms used at night to teach electrical classes, plumbing classes, adult education, and more. The fields are used by all kinds of groups and are constantly being requested for things like summer camps, youth groups like soccer, football, lacrosse, baseball, softball, and you can come up any time and see the failing track being used by members of the community. A second gym is mandatory to meet these needs. This building is not just a high school, it is a community building, just as the hospital is, the community services buildings are, and the YMCA. We shouldn’t be looking to cut we should be looking to add. Look at it as an island wide, community used, facility, as the turf field would have been and still may be. The MSBA does have its standards that need to be met for reimbursement. If you don’t want to repeat the fiasco that happened in Tisbury, as Don points out, don’t turn down their money and follow their rules. This is a long term investment in our island community as a whole. Don’t penny pinch in the design and the building. Maybe it will also last over 60 years too.
Great points Patrick, the school is used by the whole island for a lot more then just educating highschool students, which further begs the question why is the the budget for the school on a per student basis. clearly your not from Tisbury that carries over 30 percent of the budget, because if you were it would be CUT,CUT,CUT.
I want what’s best for the kids, i went to the school, my kids went, hopefully some day their kids will go. But until the entire island pitches in equally Tisbury just can’t afford it.
Time to be one island
John, I agree. I know that the funding formula, that is over 60 years old, made sense then but it doesn’t now. As an OB resident, we pay more towards the school than up island tax payers. Up Island with their property minimums are minimizing their population numbers, thus putting the school operating budget demand mainly on the down island towns. I agree with you. The operating budget should be split 6 ways, evenly. The tax base in up island can afford it. The down island towns have been footing the bill for too long. If the roof fails, it isn’t going to specify which town paid the taxes for the kids it lands on. It sounds gruesome to think about but it is a fact. If the fields fail, the up island kids could get hurt just as easily as the down island kids. Equal is equal. Pay your share.
Wonder if pre-fab buildings would be cheaper?
Not to mention the beauty.
Why not write muni/island bonds?
That does not change the cost of construction .
When it comes to projects like this I am reminded of the great Mo Vaughn. As he once said, “the price is going up everyday, gentlemen”.
As to some of the ridiculous ideas about kids building schools and privatization, let’s not waste time entertaining ridiculous ideas and focus on the task at hand. Building a school with great facilities that will be there for generations to come.
Harrison– I think you are taking my comment about the building
trades department building schools. I am suggesting they participate
in this as a community project and doing some simple construction
of simple classrooms. It hasn’t always been the case that no part
of any school can be built without 12 inch thick cement walls,
giant I beams, and vaulted 16 ft ceilings with exposed
12×8 rafters. Has anybody ever been in the Oak Bluffs
town hall ? What a ridiculous amount of unused space that
needs to be heated and cooled. What ever happened to the idea
of building what you need, and not building grandiose
monuments that waste millions of taxpayer dollars.
If you want to see what I am talking about, just stick your
head in the O.B. town hall. Yeah, it’s really pretty once you can get past
the idea of how much it cost and how many resources were wasted in its
construction and ongoing energy requirements.
“12 inch thick cement walls, giant I beams, and vaulted 16 ft ceilings with exposed 12×8 rafters.”
Last longer than stick built.
What are the energy costs per square foot in the OB Town Hall.
Other Island town halls?
It is easy to quantify with bothering to quantify.
It’s just a little research….
Albert, 12” thick walls can be a heat sink. Or the walls and ceilings can have phase-change material inside. No building should be built in Massachusetts unless it is south facing. All new construction should be passive solar and air-tight.
All buildings have a near south facing side.
albert– I’m not so sure about that beams lasting longer..
The high school was built in 1959. By 1994 the roof of
the cafeteria had collapsed. It had those giant exposed beams
and the vaulted ceilings I am talking about. 35 years, and it was toast.
In my opinion, it was because the very weight of the
overengineered roof. The energy cost per square foot is not really
all that relevant, when you have 12 ft wide hallways and 20 ft ceilings.
My point is that the OB town hall has more wasted space than
usable space. That’s not cutting corners, that’s just feeding
the egos of the architects and making everyone feel prosperous
or something. They might as well build a 90 % solid stone pyramid.
And what Mary said about passive solar.
Don, let’s heat those wasted spaces with clean burning firewood. That will fix that problem. And let’s use child labor for all union jobs. No need to pay children a living wage or have to worry about how they will afford their housing. They can continue to live with their parents in their basement.
Carl– they do make outdoor wood fired
furnaces with scrubbers on them.
They can be large enough to provide most of the heat and
hot water for the school. They can take burnable construction
debris, and could burn some of the fuel that is lying
on the floor of the state forest waiting to ignite and
cause an uncontrolled wildfire. It would be 100% carbon
neutral and save the school enough money to pay
the kids in the building trades for the work they do building
sheds that the schools sells. I agree– the kids should get
paid $30 an hour while in those classes, and should
be unionized. And why don’t the kids get paid for sports ?
Star NFL players get millions of dollars a year to play
football– why should the kids who play here get nothing ?
It just doesn’t make sense– It’s so unfair and corrupt and “rigged”.
And you know, I keep showing you studies, research and common
sense articles about how environmentally friendly heating
with wood is, and you keep implying it’s a heavy
polluter without ever showing any evidence to back it up.
You sound like the pillow guy telling us about how the election
was stolen, and he has all the evidence to 110 % prove
it that he will show us next week.
Wood is better than oil.
It does not leak.
What Don said.
Pre-fab Modular School Buildings are Already in Use for Schools in Massachusetts, including Harvard University
https://www.triumphmodular.com/classrooms/
Temporary.
Like the Tisbury School.
The Island kids deserve better.
What I learned during my thirty eight years running a construction company was to advise my clients to put their all dreams into the design process. I would then bid the job, if the cost was above the budget we would remove items until we reached a number they were comfortable with.
The purpose of this exercise was having everything they wanted listed with the cost associated, we could remove the least required items to reach a number they were comfortable with while retaining the most important parts of the design.
We are planning on building a school for the next fifty plus years to think that the existing building can be renovated is in my opinion a serous mistake.
The build is a sprawling series of halls, 2 x 4 construction, windows & doors, wiring, plumbing, HVAC, substandard insulation what all need to be replaced. Renovations are much more expensive per sq ft than new construction because of the labor required to save parts of the structure. In this case except for the PAC center and possible the gym there is nothing in the existing structure worth saving.
If we are going to really do this project correctly spend the monies that are required.
If the cost is too much write the bond issue for more years, lower the yearly payments but do not lose focus of what is at stake.
WHAT ELSE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR CHILDREN?
Terry, we should INSIST that the building is passive solar.
“Zero contractors” wow ! that’s a kick in the news you’re talking about the men and women who grew up here ??this island is full of talented skilled laborers , architects engineers
Are world class here. Again, keeping it as high as you can so you can keep your hand out for the federal government money , that seems like a technique you use over and over here. how well did Tisbury school hit the number first projected I was told it was four times the amount of money ??it’s beautiful from the outside. I’m sure the inside too ;dump the money into the local economy here every dollar here turns into six for you to pay one group from the mainland, just doesn’t sound good .I was also told the principal of a school hold the purse for dispersement when additions or renovations are done. Is this true? wouldn’t you rather have a seasoned contractor
From Martha’s Vineyard? as in the past, you hire people from off Island you rent them houses on Martha’s Vineyard because it’s so affordable to rent here year-round so you can write this off your budget. It’s so backwards your finances !put a call out to the island talent watch. How many show up ?many.
What Patricia said!
What Island contractor has the depth of experience to do this job?
What Island contractor can get a performance bond?
Where can I see the various design proposals that have been presented to date? I have tried to find but no luck. Why would it be so difficult to find?
Please promise that whatever is built or erected (stick built or modular) that sufficient money and personnel are elected/hired to take care of the building. One of the sorriest things I’ve seen on the Vineyard in my 50 years (and counting) is the disrepair that public buildings fall into. That’s not to malign the custodians; they don’t have enough help, or personnel to keep the buildings in good repair.
That’s because the towns ask for level funded budgets. It’s a simple math problem. Nobody wants to pay for maintenance especially if it puts a town in need of asking for a 2 1/2 override.
P.S.: 50+ years a washashore; 85+ years of existence….
Gone by?
Does anyone here think there are no sheetrockers on this
island that can hang sheetrock ? How about painters ?
Not a single painting contractor knows how to paint a wall ?
No one on the island can figure out how to put chairs and
desks together? Install light bulbs ?
Look– The West Tisbury library is on the hook for
a few million to fix the off islander installed HVAC system that is
less than 10 years ago. The Chilmark school spent I don’t know
how much to fix drainage problems.
The Tisbury police station had to replace much of their exterior
trim within 6 years of construction, and a few years ago students
were passing out from the heat in the PAC because the off island
contractors couldn’t figure out that it should have it’s own heating zone.
Yeah, maybe there is not a fully certified and bonded contractor that could
handle the whole project on island, but it’s ridiculous to not include
some of the islands locally skilled labor. Do we really need to find housing
for off island sheetrockers and painters making $120 an hour ?
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