The nation’s attention has been tuned to college campuses as masses of students gather, occupy, and call for a ceasefire in Gaza. And graduates from Martha’s Vineyard Regional High School have been among those observing and participating in these protests, using their voices for advocacy while also navigating the violence that has manifested, from mass arrests to anti-Semitic rhetoric.
The protests have taken place from Berkeley to Columbia, and an epicenter has been not far from the Island, in Boston.
Sophia Kokoszka, graduate of Martha’s Vineyard Regional High School last year, Oak Bluffs resident, and now a freshman at Northeastern University, experienced it firsthand.
“It started out as calm,” she said of a protest she joined at Northeastern University’s campus on April 26. The sun was out, and students were outside sitting on the green, working on slogans and signs that would be part of their protest. They read, “Disclose, Divest, Denounce,” “Ceasefire,” and most prominently, “Free Palestine.”
Kokoszka said a number of students circled around a small encampment that students had created on campus, signs in hand. But despite its peaceful beginnings, as the protests persisted, the day passed, and their numbers grew, a few supervising police officers eventually became a swarm of police officers. By the morning, they were zip-tying protesters before taking them to the station for booking.
“Even though the protests were relatively peaceful, there was a lot of intimidation,” Kokoszka said, speaking to the administration and law enforcement responses.
It has been widely reported that roughly 100 students were arrested at the Northeastern protest.
“I want to use my voice to remind others that there are real people and suffering behind those numbers, and we cannot let anyone forget that. Those that have the power to use their voices and resources must act, because this is not a matter of religion or politics, it’s a matter of humanity,” she told The Times.
The protests at Northeastern are just one of many around the country where students have called for — among other pleas — a ceasefire in Gaza. The Times spoke to several Martha’s Vineyard Regional High School graduates about what they witnessed, and how they were involved.
Ava Dunbar McGee, graduate of MVRHS (’23) and resident of Oak Bluffs, observed protests consisting of thousands of student protesters. That’s with civic protest organizations such as DC Schools in Solidarity for Palestine, and DMV Dissenters, and with American University’s location near the epicenter of democratic expression in Washington.
Despite overwhelming response in support of Palestine at these protests, McGee says she has observed that American University remains a divided campus.
“The climate in general is very divided. My school also has a particularly strong Jewish community. I do have some cultural Jewish background, and a lot of us have been feeling very divided about what to think,” she said.
Despite many protests being labeled “peaceful,” McGee says that she has felt growing anti-Semitism on campus, along with the intensifying protests. She cited spray-painted swastikas on dorm room doors, and the usage of anti-Semetic rhetoric when verbalizing opinions on the matter.
Despite this, McGee continues to show her support through social media for the Palestinian cause.
“I am very proud of my Jewish identity, and everything that we’ve overcome, and our Jewish community. But at the same time, I am disgusted by the actions that the Israeli government is taking out on the people in Gaza,” she said.
Engagement at the University of Pennsylvania has been similarly rampant — from the building of encampments to protests, vigils, and walkouts. Isa Merriam, MVRHS graduate (’23) and a resident of Vineyard Haven, has observed extremely high tensions on campus. She believes it’s due to the diverse makeup of University of Pennsylvania’s student population.
“The issues land much closer to home for people,” she said. “It’s not a community made up of people from the U.S. […] it’s much different because it’s like, ‘I’m from this area,’ or ‘All my family lives in Israel.’ I also think that these international communities feel a sort of kinship with the people of Gaza, coming from an area that has also experienced war and turmoil.”
She cited extremes on both opposing forces on campus, between those who support Israel and those who support Palestine: “There is this very deep personal connection to it on both sides, which would also explain why some people have very strong responses to certain activism on both sides.” she said. “It is not justified to express certain hate speech or rhetoric. But I do understand that the reason that that might be occurring is because it’s a very intimate issue for a lot of students.”
Vivian Peake, MVRHS graduate (’23) and a Vineyard Haven resident, has attended a number of the large, student-led protests supporting Palestinian freedom at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. She said that protests are observed regularly, and have amassed thousands of students from Boston schools.
“The protests are unavoidable,” she said. “There were posters blanketing every surface with pictures of kidnapped Israelis, and writing in chalk everywhere saying ‘Free Palestine.’”
Only two hours away from Boston in Northampton, roughly 50 students began the encampment at Smith College’s College Hall on April 27. After 13 days, the sit-in became what Mount Holyoke News reports is the largest and longest in the school’s history.
“We have been putting out multiple petitions and statements, and they’ve been getting rejected. That’s why we’re still at it,” said Madeleine Benggtson, MVRHS graduate (’23) of Oak Bluffs. Students at Smith are calling for the divestment of the college’s funds from governmental organizations contributing to the creation of weaponry used in the current conflict.
“We’re paying so much tuition to these schools, and it’s not fair for them to be using their loads of money to aid this war, which many of us are not in support of,” Benggtson said.
As of earlier this week, the Guardian estimates that more than 40 colleges and universities are holding protests in support of Palestine.
“I went to my first protest yesterday,” G.G. DeBlase, MVRHS graduate (’23), a West Tisbury resident and student at Skidmore College, told The Times on Friday.
“It’s an issue so far away, so people can say, ‘Oh, it’s not making a difference, what’s one tiny liberal arts college going to do anyway?’ But I think it matters that we, as a whole, align with this issue because America is so involved in this issue,” she said. “The environment at the protest felt very safe and peaceful, and it felt great to be there in solidarity with the people of Gaza.”
In terms of future protests, G.G. said, “I will be there if there are more.”
The Biden administration has been saying white supremacists are the greatest threat to this country but for some reason I didn’t notice them rioting in 2020 nor participating in the insurrections on college campuses. And I haven’t seen the MAGA extremists on college campuses calling for Jews to be killed. Biden has yet to come out with a strong statement condemning the atrocities taking place. My guess is because he hasn’t figured out how to blame Trump yet. Can anyone honestly say that Republicans are behind this? But we do see elected Democrats vociferously cheering them on.
What we are witnessing is far left fascism and the results of liberal progressives operating from Saul Alinskys book Rules for Radicals. Our education system has been co-opted by radicals who no longer teach people how to think but what to think. As Rev Jeremiah Wright once said about America “its chickens have come home to roost”.
Having witnessed the tragedy of 9/11 it sickens me to see our future leaders of this country shout death to America and cheer on Hamas while taking down the American flag on college campuses in NYC and raising the flag of the Palestine. Hamas has in there charter to kill Jews and Americans. What poison heve we been indoctrinating our kids with? Unfortunately, I have two kids at these “elite” schools that I’m paying 90k a year for each one. What they have reported back to me is sickening. They and their peers don’t indulge in substantive dialogue in the classroom but instead research the teachers and regurgitate back what they want to hear for the easy A. Can’t fault them for playing the game but it’s a sad state of affairs. One is graduating this year and landed his dream job on Wall Steet while the other graduates next with his signed offer of employment. The ROI will be there for them but if I could do it all over it would be trade school or state school.
As for the young students from MV who are protesting I wish you luck in your endeavors. Just be careful for what you wish for as you might just get it.
Outstanding comment, Carl Kelly!!
What I remember about protesters in America when I was in Vietnam 1970 -1971 with the Marines in the jungles there, my infantry unit came across many NVA & VC weapons caches.
One memorable incidence was, in one buried weapons cache we uncovered included with weapons there there was plenty of morphine, bandages and other medications donated to them from the students of “University of California, Berkeley“!
We were very surprised and Pi$$ed off to say the least! We radioed back to the rear and demanded that they chopper out a officer to witness this, photograph it and plaster it all over the“Stars and Stripes Magazine“!
The simply said “Calm down Marine and just blow them in place as we usually do“!
We said, “You Cant Be Serious“!
They replied “If we went out every time Marines found Colleges and Universities in America sending supplies to `Charlie`, we would never get any work done back here!
We took our own pictures and followed their orders forthwith!
I remember that moment every day especially now when I see all this BS going on in the news and Brandon just snoozing in his bunker!
When we finally returned home to a ungrateful nation we were greeted by many of those protesters. Now-a-days most of those kids weren’t even born then!
However, I saw on the news police officers taking the masks off some of the protesters and under those masks were older white haired men and women!
Go figure.
Mr Williams thank you for your service and Semper Fi. I will always appreciate the sacrifice of those who came before me. I’m not so confident that I will be blessed with the same gratitude.
Gratitude for saving the world from Communism by Napalming women and children?
The Vietnam War (in Vietnam they call it the American War, just another war of foreign aggression) was brought to close by students, not Semper Fi.
And a child shall them…
Earlier in these comments I have been called out for being harsh in my views and sometimes I may be.
I am not trying to be harsh when I say that at the end of the day we as humans are not that different than animals living in the wild. Natural law is pretty basic that the strong will survive and it is survival of the fittest. As we have evolved we have tried reason and compassion but when push comes to shove we will always fall back on our animal instincts.
Throughout history man has taken land from weaker men and settled or attempted to settle on that land and claim it as their own. Yup, we took this land and until someone bigger stronger and smarter comes along to take it from us, well then it’s ours. So for all the people crying about colonialism and spewing anti American nonsense, don’t be a hypocrite and give your land to those who owned it before you. Until then please keep the virtue signaling to yourself and be thankful we are the strongest country on earth. You have reaped all the benefits of colonization so sit back and enjoy your freedoms as I’m afraid our days of resting on our forefathers laurels are limited. One recent pole suggests less than half of military age men would fight for this country. One can not stay in power when over half the country are selfish anti American takers. So liberals be careful what you wish for standing shoulder to shoulder with this who have sworn to kill you as you have alienated those who are willing to pick up a weapon and fight. Remember it’s the liberals who want to confiscate our guns.
What about January 6th?
Good for you Sophia!
Why is it good, Susan? The only thing that’s good is that these kids were not asked to explain what their signs and slogans mean. Had they been asked, they’d look gullible and foolish for supporting what the terrorists want.
Jackie..they are standing up for disenfranchised people. Palestinians are not necessarily Hamas. And, Sophia was articulate and clear in her words. Lot more than I can say about many other people.
Susan. Palestinians and Hamas are one. Most voted for Hamas and lived with them 17 years.
Andrew Engelman. Are Russians and Communism one? All of Eastern Europe. Throughout the ages?
Sweeping generalities are such fun.
Ridiculous and expected from you.
The Gaza has not had an election since 2006. Half of Gaza’s population is under 18, meaning that they have never had a meaningful say in the government running the place. I defy you to explain how children are morally culpable for an election that happened before they were born.
A poll taken shortly after the October 7th Hamas massacre in Israel found that approximately 75% of Palestinians support Hamas. This data is frightening and depressing.
Do Gazan children deserve to die because of the way their parents filled out a poll?
Unfortunately civilians always die in war.
Susan. Who is disenfranchised and by whom? If you’re suggesting Israel is responsible for what Hamas has intentionally and knowingly done to Gazans, killing, starving, hiding behind them, radicalizing them, and stealing their aid, you would be incorrect and as ignorant on the topic as those you encourage. It’s not a good job. Not in any sense.
Jackie, the other side are always terrorists.
How does one tell me they are antisemitic without every mentioning the word “Jew”?
Not one person mentioned the 10/7 invasion of Israel launched from indside Gaza, and Hamas’ atrocities and kidnappings that declared this war, unwanted by Israel, on Israeli civilians. Hostages are not ever mentioned. And not a single person had a word of protest against Hamas, the terrorist group that started this war. No issues over who funds Hamas and their huge war machine built in tunnels, hospitals, schools, residences within Gaza, starving their own people, using them as shields, and stealing billions in aid. No one insists that Hamas surrender. Israel is blamed– for existing and protecting their right to exist. That’s Jew-hatred.
There are ways to express caring for innocent victims of war without being antisemitic and ignorant, just because it’s the cool thing to be these days. It’s a sheep mentality. One sheep says baaaa and millions answer as a chorus bleating the same baloney.
We find ourselves agreeing about something. Imagine that.
I, for one, insist that Hamas surrender. If they’d rather surrender to Allah than to Israel, then, I’m completely fine with that. They’re the ones saying the Israelis have no right to live, and attempting to enforce it. In that, they willingly gave up their own right to live.
It’s called war. It’s hell. Israel didn’t start it, they’re totally within their rights to end it.
Yes that does mean ending it the hard way.
Exactly!
Jackie, surprise, not all semites are Jewish.
Semitic
1: of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic
2: of, relating to, or characteristic of the Semites
3: JEWISH
Semitic
noun
: any or all of the Semitic languages
Surprise, Ralph Nader used to carry on about this antisemitic nonsense, as has every other antisemite since. Everyone knows what antisemitism is, except for antisemites, apparently.
Trolling me with antisemitic comments is not a good look.
I think you will feel reassured by my comment further down in this thread. We must never forget what happened on October 7, 2023, and that Hamas continues to hold any remaining hostages as a meagre bargaining chip. I have long been concerned about the failure by so many to take time to acknowledge their barbarity. It’s been a widespread moral failing that understandably results in the perception of apologism for terrorism.
Biden has called himself a “Zionist”, l’m an “anti-Zionist”. To call me “anti-Semitic” is simply telling on yourself.
Jackie, you haven’t mentioned the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Balfour Declaration (in which the British government supported a Jewish “home” in Palestine, at which time an estimated 93% of the Palestinian population was not Jewish), or the Treaties of Sèvres and Lausanne either. Or the ways in which the British suppressed Palestinian (and Arab more generally) self-determination after WWI. Or the way European countries and the U.S. turned away Jews who were trying to flee Hitler’s Germany. Or, more recently, the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank.
Hamas didn’t come out of nowhere. (Neither did Iran, for that matter — remember when the U.S. went gung-ho for “regime change” in Iraq, thereby destabilizing the #1 regional force keeping Iran in check?) I do realize that informing oneself takes time and effort, while posting online requires little of either. But there’s real satisfaction to be had in knowing what you’re talking about. Give it a try. Your money back if it doesn’t work.
Just saw this. Interesting that you come after me for being “uninformed”, out of all the people on here talking nonsense. I get it, though. Attacking me for supporting Israel’s right to exist on the ancestral homeland of the Jews proves for you that my objecting to MV antisemitism is a signal that I am stupid and uninformed about the thousands of years of history of Jews, Judaism, and Israel. I also didn’t mention the meaning of the Red Sea parting or Passover. Does that also mean that I, a proud Jew, am too stupid to understand all the Jew-hatred coming my way and why? Some of it from former friends? Okay then.
When antisemites can’t actually get away with saying they support Hamas and that rape, mutilation and torture of girls is cool with phony feminists as long as the victims are Jews and nothing but the dehumanized objects for resistance by “freedom fighters”, they look up stuff they had no idea about before and yammer on about how the Jew doesn’t know enough to defend Israel’s right to exist. Do I have that right? Honestly Susanna, you’re transparent. Knew it the last time you tried to say “Arabs were there first”, Ottoman Empire, blah blah. You’re wrong. Your attack of me is inappropriately personal, rage-full, ugly, antisemitic, and way out of order. I know exactly where all the Jew hating proxies came from and who’s been hornswoggled by them. Why don’t you think before you decide to lie about what you assume about me and who you decide I am? Do you know how you’ve made yourself sound?
Actually have mentioned West Bank settlements several times in these last months, but your prejudices have got the best of you. Your comment is almost as outrageous as an antisemite lecturing me on Jewish values or the meaning of Chanukah. Almost. Not quite. And this is WITH a moderator trying to adhere to a Terms of Service Agreement. Shaking my head in disgust.
Ms Sturgis.
Jackie knows more about this subject than any of us. Yes Sykes-Picot. Over the years, major powers divided up land all over the world. colonialists in Africa and LatinAmerica and the Middle East. Many divisions and break ups. But what you dont understand is that there is no such thing as a Palestinian and your denouncing of Jackie as uneducated is not only rude but incorrect. Read some history as to what a Palestinian is. Jews have been in the Israeli territory for thousands of years–way before so called Palestinians. What pray tell is illegal about the settlements in the West Bank. The West bank was conquered from Jordan in 1967 and given back to the PLO. Illegal in who’s eyes? The UN?
What kind of statement is “there is no such thing as a Palestinian” if not a racist one? All cultural categories are arbitrary. Because the word “Palestinian” does not appear in the bible, you think they aren’t a coherent group? Or that they do not deserve freedom? It’s preposterous essentialist claim designed to dehumanize a people who, even if they did not have a shared culture before 1948, definitely have one now.
Ask one protestor what this is all about and all you will get is ignorance. Ignorance of the History, ignorance of Hamas, Ignorance of Iran and particular ignorance of Israel, its founding and what Palestinian means. Most of these agitators are paid for and imported to promote violence and to indoctrinate our youth in high schools and universities. This is the continuance of Jewish persecution for 3 thousand years and very similar to 1935 and what later happened.
100%.
In part, the ignorance of youth.
Perhaps more distressingly, a failure to educate.
Best comment so far. A failing of our education system.
The NY Post surveyed the hundreds of protestors who were arrested in NYC. They found that around 40% were outside agitators. We may assume this hold for other schools across the country as well.
Concur.
How about if one of these kids explains here exactly what “Free, free Palestine” means? Please include what this bleated phrase means for women who are “dishonored”. And for gay people. Please do not use words you do not know how to correctly define— words like “genocide” and “Zionism” and “Jewish values”. Let’s see what “Good for you” really means without using the usual antisemitic tropes, gaslighting, harassing, and lack of historical fact.
When will the Times be publishing a whole article on how it feels to be Jewish on one of these anti-Israel/blame all Jews, protesting campuses, when these pro Hamas students block them from going to class, like the racist kids did to Black students during desegregation, and like Germans did to Jewish students in Germany in 1938. I’m listening, but I’m not the only one.
(Adult antisemites need not answer for the kids. No answer from the protesting kids is an answer, because we know they’re reading this article about themselves.
When will the Times be publishing an article about how the island’s Jewish community feels when one newspaper gives so much time and space to antisemitic ignorance?
Free Palestine means the sovereign nation of Palestine, free of foreign domination.
Free of Jewish theocracy.
No sovereign nation of Palestine Hess None. Never was and never will be. Palestinians are unintegrated Jordanians Syrians and other middle easterners who are third generation carried and enabled by UNRWA and who have never assimilated into their native countries. Gazans are not dominated. They had Gaza and blew it big time and allowed Hamas to carry out terror build tunnels and call for Jewish eradication. Israel allowed Gazans to live freely, commute back and forth into Israel for work and be peaceful. They didnt do it. No Jewish theocracy. Israel if you go there is greatly secular and non religious except for a few traditions.
Palestine was established in 1918. Israel 1978.
Do they have the right to exist?
Israel never allowed Gazans to live freely, commute back and forth into Israel for work and be peaceful. Always under the iron hand of the “MASA”.
I have spent the better part of a year in Israel, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
I have seen monotheists killing monotheists.
Trump supporters support Christian Nationalism like Israelis support Jewish Nationalism.
What is the distribution of religious affiliation in Israel?
Enough to be a theocracy?
Like what the Mormons tried in Utah?
Has the Island Jewish Community submitted articles and comments to the MVT.
Have they been refused.
Are you a semite?
Your name appears so often in these pages.
When will a member of the Island’s semitic community submit an article to MVT.
We want to hear their point of view…
Yes, strongly worded letters written by Jews to protest the antisemitism this newspaper hosts are usually censored, as are many comments objecting to antisemtic remarks like your semite nonsense. “Frothing Zionists” makes it through, though, as does old Ralph Nader’s defense of his own antisemitism when he was the first to stupidly coin the semite/antisemite argument.
Every antisemite since then picks up on this argument, making a fool of himself every time he tried it, as if people don’t know “antisemite” is another word for “jew-hater”.
Have any of the Island’s Jewish faith leaders had there comments rejected.
“Frothing Zionists” , that disgusting. Who posted that?
Ralph knows the definition of the word semite, you do not.
Palestinians/Hamas are semites.
Agreed.
It’s easy to feel good about yourself and your actions when you ignore half the equation.
Odd how the half that was massacred, raped, and kidnapped is being brushed aside in the name of focusing on ‘humanity’.
Why think about that nightmare? There’s publicity to be had and Insta pics to post for clout. Your friends will cheer. Your parents will be proud.
Cultural narcissism. Not activism.
Have you considered googling why a Palestinian might be motivated to attack Israel? You might be surprised.
So you’re condoning the violence against Israel?
Rape, sexual mutilation, torture and kidnapping and murdering civilians are not a war strategy. Got it? It was done to declare a war on Israel that Israel did not want. The “freedom fighters” excuse for Jew hatred doesn’t work. It’s antisemitic.
Will I read anything that will justify putting babies in ovens ?
Only thing surprising here is that self-righteous folks like yourself are able to discard the massacre of thousands of innocent Israelis while innocent Palestinians are used as human shields by their own home-grown terrorists more than happy to rack up collateral damages as long as it engages ignorant and uneducated persons to celebrate their cause.
First, based on reporting in the New York Times as well as Israeli media, no provable example of sexual violence occurred on Oct 8. Several people did lie or choose to present shoddy claims about it, including at the NYT, which has fired some of the people involved in their initial coverage.
Second, the babies in oven claim is completely fake. A lie made up by racists for racists. See the BBC for proof.
Third, if Israel is allowed to indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza as revenge for violence against their people, why isn’t Hamas? Of course, Israel has universal conscription, so any given Israeli is more likely to be a soldier than, say, the inhabitants of a densely populated city block in northern Gaza that are mostly under the age of eighteen. It’s clear in this comments section is doing moral math, though. You’re just playing favorites.
“no provable example of sexual violence occurred on Oct 8.”
There is tons of proof. You need something greater than captured Hamas bragging on camera about how they raped children to make them “dirty”?
That’s right, no proof. Lots of bad actors making stuff up or blindly repeating rumors, though. Citation: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/world/middleeast/video-sexual-assault-israel-kibbutz-hamas.html
A genuine denier of proven facts of the worst attack on Jews since the holocaust, published in the MVTimes. Can’t get more antisemitic than that.
Ah, so is the New York Times antisemitic now, too? At all times? Or merely when they happen to present information that you find inconvenient?
I realize that this is a challenging topic for the MV Times staff to moderate, but if Jackie can accuse quite literally anybody who disagrees with her of antisemitism, which is just a shade shy of “nazi” and one of the worst things you can be in modern America, and you -yes, you moderator- will approve the remark, then I really ought to be able to disagree with her more pointedly, or receive an explanation why not.
Here is what I want to say: Jackie and others in the same rhetorical style are modern McCarthyists who use fear of being called antisemitic to silence oppositional viewpoints regardless of the relationship of those viewpoints to animus against the Jewish religion or people. This set of bad faith arguments is especially used to conflate Judaism (the people) with Israel (a nation-state with strategic interests) in order to deflect valid criticism of the latter.
There are more balanced treatments of the issue. I’ll link one below. Of course, most people today will seek out the coverage that confirms their bias. Those supporting Hamas would obviously choose the source that denies the rape of innocents – otherwise they would be bearing an irredeemably evil position, wouldn’t they?
On another note – it took a good 20 years for serious holocaust denial to take hold. You guys have seriously upped your game.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/october-7-hamas-sexual-assault/678091/
Alexis, I’ve spent seven months re-reading the history. I have experience with the region, and with this particular topic, dating back years before the current war, and I listen to the firsthand experiences of others. These factors inform my stances. I don’t base any opinion on bad social media takes.
There is a hard line that should never be crossed. Saying Gazans face legitimate issues that require solutions–many caused by their cruel leadership—and that their children deserve, like all children, to thrive is one thing. This is a position I’ve always taken. This is what it should mean to be pro-Palestine, as opposed to the pro-Hamas hysteria being Trojan horse’d into the U.S.
Feeling there is any defensible reason on Earth to kidnap, hold hostage, slaughter, burn, torture, dismember, mutilate, and viciously rape—to the point of broken bones and death—Israelis. including infants, is supporting evil at its most flagrant. There is nothing that will change my mind on Hamas, nor on the many who recast their actions as noble.
October 7th was not about freedom. Did it help or hinder Gaza? We know the answer, and Hamas knew what would happen. Everything was planned and executed to maximize Israeli pain, suffering, and dehumanization. Hamas admits to wanting Jewish girls to feel “dirty”, and so they broke their bodies. Pure barbarism. When these innocents passed away, the monsters abused their corpses.
“NBC News has reviewed five interrogations of captured Hamas fighters, an Arabic-language document that instructed Hamas how to pronounce “Take off your pants” in Hebrew… According to first responders, [regarding female genitals] one was mutilated with a pair of scissors and another stabbed with a knife. The genitals of some men who had been killed were mutilated as well… Hamas militants were instructed to systematically carry out sexual violence on women and children.”
Will anyone dare claim the above was about a land dispute? A border-policing dispute? Can anyone overlook sexual brutality of the highest order and also preach of compassion?
Please utilize Google to research where the Israeli dead lived and what the prevailing attitudes were. Many of the victims, as confirmed by their families, were peaceful folks who supported better relations with their neighbors. They supported change that would benefit Palestinians. Despite this selflessness, they were shown the opposite of mercy. Where is the love for them?
This was planned by men with privilege, not victims of oppression. If they cared for Gazans an iota, Hamas wouldn’t steal aid, etc. No, I don’t believe terrorists committed the most depraved acts possible as a means of rescuing anyone. Hamas invited war, wanted war, then demanded every child remain in harm’s path. As a sacrifice. Yet Americans still think they are a protective force? Tide Pod generation indeed.
If that’s not enough, Hamas has always confirmed, in writing and out loud, that their hatred of Israel is rooted in fanatical beliefs. This supersedes any dispute over land or governance. Nothing Jews do will please terrorists who loathe them for merely being Jewish. And no, the irrational hatred is not mutual as some claim. Jews live and work alongside Muslims already. And vice versa.
Decent people of any faith make it work. This is about terrorists. If the Island had even a taste of they are capable of, tunes would change with a quickness.
You’re citing a piece of paper about taking off pants that is presented unquestioningly by our useless national media, but could easily have been planted. Indeed, people fluent in both Arabic and Hebrew note that the language is unusual, implying a native Hebrew speaker. A single crumpled up piece of paper presented by a racist IDF soldier is insufficient evidence, especially given the distortions and lies detailed in this Intercept piece: https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/
Are the hostages lying, too? When they say they’ve been sexually assaulted while held in captivity for months?
Are you aware that those killed and those kidnapped and subsequently violated are from various backrounds/races?
The benefit of the doubt goes to people with a clean track record. You are talking about those so far gone, so evil, that they spent years stealing from their own and placing munitions under hospitals with children, then tried to force those babies, those kids, to stay and be martyred for their deranged cause. There is no debate about this.
I don’t think it’s a particular stetch to follow the other evidence and conclude they’re also sexual predators. (That was sarcasm. There is no stretch.) Not when we know what awards they believe await them and how they view women and virgins, etc.
If you take the sexual assault out of the mix (though you shouldn’t) I wonder how the rest of barbarity can be defended. Then again I don’t think I want to find out.
I tried to explain to you that I see value in Gaza’s youth. In return, you did not even acknowledge Israel’s humanity, let alone suffering. I see this dynamic everywhere, only to be told I’m immoral. I can live with the personal slight. What I can’t bear is the premise driving it.
Sorry, my phone changes the spelling of Alexis’ last name.
Bardot, when an antisemite calls a Jew a Nazi (for noticing antisemitism) that about wraps it up. Put a bow on it. I can count on one hand the number of people whose antisemitism is undeniable as nd pointed out by me. Only an antisemite objects to this reality.
Why are college students so obsessed with the war that Hamas brought upon the people of Gaza?
The fact that Hamas still is holding hostages is cruel. Where is the outrage about that?
Fun fact:
1. The majority of the “Palestinians in both the West Bank and in Gaza, support Hamas.
When you support Gaza, you are supporting Hamas.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
Apprently it’s trendy for college kids to join in demonstrations for support of Hamas but how about speaking up for folks who are actually being victimized purely due to circumstances?
Hamas brought the destruction upon Gaza, the people below are purely oppressed.
Syrian conflict, 306,887 civilians dead
Kurdish 400,000 civilian deaths
Ukranian 30,457 civilians dead
Sudan, minimum 15,000 killed
Burkina faso, 8,000 deaths
Haiti, 5,000 deaths
Boko Haram, murdering and abducting children
WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE, GEN Z?
Oh, it’s only there for Israel. A place where Arab citizens, Women, Gay people all have equal rights.
What it’s like to be a gay person in Gaza. Great, if you don’t mind being thrown off a roof. For real.
And not one little squeak from the female demostrators about women rights in Gaza?
Over 1.2 million Tibetans (one out of every six) have died as a result of 70 years of Chinese occupation and oppression. Tibetan slave labor camps?
I WONDER HOW MANY OF THE “enlightened ” DEMONSTRATORS ARE CHILLING IN THEIR QATAR SUPPLIED TENTS, using their made in china Iphones to order A BUNCH OF CHINESE MADE ITEMS FROM AMAZON?
WHAT, NO PROBLEM BUYING CHINESE GOODS?
Here’s some slogan that you can put on your signs”
“Free TIBET: End the Occupation!” ?
“Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions: Solidarity with TIBET!”
“Justice for TIBET: End the Siege on TIBET!
“Right of Return: Justice for TIBET Refugees!
To me, I find it incredible how this generation of college kids have become
“the useful idiots” of terrorists.
College students obsessed with the domination of Palestine by so many new comers.
How many of the Israel residents grandparents were born their?
Palestinians?
Allright Ed– Tell it like it is– I couldn’t agree more. ALL
aggression should be condemned.
“All aggression should be condemned” — unless it’s Ukraine fighting back against being attacked by Russia. Jews in Israel fighting for survival? Not so much.
The pretense and hypocrisy and downright lies of the liberal left who have exceptions to every single one of their “peace at any costs, especially if it allows for savages attacking Jews in the intent to annihilate Israel and Jews, is fine. I do not have to be reminded never to support whoever and whatever antisemites support and vote for. This is what liberal fascism accomplishes: Trump. Way to go. Liberal left are the most overall hate-filled, close-minded, prejudiced people in this country. Will never align with liars and traitors.
All aggression should be condemned, lol, but announcing who Jackie hates in one lie after another, week after week, and then telling me I am a “disgrace to my religion” is not aggressive antisemitic bullying. No, sir. I guess when people want to make themselves look foolish and ignorant, they go all out.
Jackie– let me repeat it- you are a disgrace to your religion and the values
that go with it. judaism is not a religion that espouses hatred.
Sorry if you feel offended by some of the things i say, but you are the loudest voice claiming that liberals, and myself in particular are “Jew hating anti-semites”. You paint a group of people with a wide hateful brush, and then are shocked and offended when someone calls you out on your lies.
And let me repeat it— most of your comments are lies. And your own words
clearly show your hatred towards numerous groups of people who are merely expressing their opinions. You call me an anti-semite and think that is fine, as you are protected by your alleged religious beliefs. You balk when I say that you are wrapping yourself behind the ‘flag” of being one of the “chosen people”. You take offense and call me anti-semitic.That kind of rhetoric is clearly foolish and ignorant.
I support Israel– I do not support genocide of the Palestinians. your ignorant hate filled comments in reply to that are a disgrace. So tell me Jackie, are the Jewish people not the “chosen people” ? Is there something wrong with me pointing that out ? Are Jews the chosen people or not?
And how would characterise your repeated claims that I am a “Jew hating anti-semite” talk about bullying—
Very good points and thought provoking. Thank you.
Just keep in mind that Netanyahu also supports Hamas . . . and Qatar . . . and limiting women’s rights, and throwing gay people off buildings. Netanyahu considers the killing of aid workers an unfortunate “mistake”. Intentionally starving the children of Gaza is a “proportional” response. No, no — not a war crime.
It’s awfully hard to know who the good guys are in this situation. I only know it’s not US. No, Israel does not have the right to level Gaza to the ground. This is an Old Testament response when a New Testament approach might have done the world some good.
What an antisemite remark. It is a lie to repeat that Israel is intentionally starving Gaza. Hamas steals aid, blocks aid, shoots people looting aid trucks, and creates a humanitarian crisis to get world wide idiots to side with them. Hamas fired a barrage of missiles at Israel this morning, FROM RAFAH, the place where Gazan civilians are. That’s what these “freedom fighters” do to kill all the civilians they can, embed themselves among them, and get Israel denounced by antisemites sitting on the Vineyard. Hamas glorifies death of its own people. Jews bless and respect life. But Israel is in an existential war, and they will prevail. Not one Muslim country wants to take in the civilians as refugees being used by Hamas for slaughter. Tragic and terrifying that there are people so stupid as to support the true genocidal manics, Hamas.
“You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
“Yes, it does.”
— Mandy Patinkin (who is also Jewish and would know)
“We’re paying so much tuition to these schools, and it’s not fair for them to be using their loads of money to aid this war, which many of us are not in support of.”
That’s not how money works. It is fair. It’s also common sense. Once you or your parents willingly hand tuition over to the school, it becomes theirs. They can do whatever they wish with it, within the bounds of law.
If you do not approve, leave. Stop paying them. Find a new college that aligns with your stance. There are many to choose from. Tons.
This logick is an example of why I want nothing to do with paying off anyone’s loans. What are students learning, other than that entitlement should produce the outcome desired?
Real life is gonna hit hard.
Blocking Jewish tuition-paying students and employed Jewish professors from entering campus is fair, though. The arrogant, narcissistic, ignorant disconnect is astonishing.
I appreciate your comments so much, Katie. Thank you.
Jackie, the Nazism being promoted and cheered on is the most hypocritical behavior imaginable. I’m sick over it and will always stand against this bigoted madness.
I admire how sharply, consistently, and thoroughly you’ve done the same. It takes a lot of strength. I’m just sorry that there’s the additional burden of having your thoughts misconstrued on purpose. Such an old, dirty trick. The animosity directed at you has really changed how I view this site. If we were unmoderated, I’d have some choice words about that.
❤️❤️❤️
Katie, the comments with clear violations of the Terms, allowed by the moderator, have made it obvious. Hate speech, antisemitism, and personal attacks based on religion are part of “free speech” in this forum, but hard hitting objections are often censored (when they’re mine). So much for journalism school. I told the moderator what I think of the job he’s doing, and I did not use my “inside voice”. I’m surprised he hasn’t banned me from commenting! Oddly, I’ve been censored fewer times since.
I have to say, when I am attacked with every dirty, antisemitic, bullying, blood libel lie imaginable, even in this thread, it’s only pathetic for the person doing it because everyone now sees what the lashing out lies are about. And that’s thanks to you. It did not mean anything when I pointed it out because I am a Jew. I was taunted and bullied for whining and playing the victim, as late as the other day. Don’t know if i’d be this outspoken if I still lived on-island or ran a business there. (Yeah, I would.)
Thanks for standing so supportively on the side of good when the current is still against us, but I believe is slowly changing. Speaking out means everything in a world of silence when it comes to supporting Jews and Israel. I moved off island a year ago, after a 50+ year attachment. I can’t believe what I read now from people (and a newspaper) I used to respect. I even got taken in by someone who privately said all the right things but it turned out, not to be so. He didn’t stand with me on here because he worried he’d go to the trouble to write something but then be censored, so he didn’t even try. Why bother, he thought. I’ve lost friends over this. Wish we had met when we had the chance.
“Real life” also includes the right to protest which, aside from ending wars and toppling governments, seem pretty likely to cost Biden his reelection. I’m sure there were letters much like yours in The Birmingham News in 1963 when Martin Luther King, Jr. was imprisoned.
The “antisemitism problem” so rampant among democrats and not just the fringe, is made so obvious. It is why former liberal-minded people will not vote for Biden. Take credit where credit is due, Biden voting Jewish Israel haters.
“I’m sure there were letters much like yours in The Birmingham News in 1963 when Martin Luther King, Jr. was imprisoned.”
I doubt anyone wrote in to explain, on a factual basis, how tuition works. Invoking his name for dramatic effect, which is how it’s most often brought up online, is not helpful. It’s also ironic, as MLK supported Israel.
I never said students can’t protest, although much of what’s going on falls outside of that definition and moves straight into harassment. I said they cannot make demands and expect fulfillment. A legal and practical truth. This is a college, not a Starbies. They are paying for an education. They are not ordering a product that’s customizable in this way, and they are certainly not purchasing a decision-making stake in a company.
I would state the same thing regardless of the protest’s focus. It’s important for students to learn that life isn’t about their wants. As Jackie said, the only students who are being treated unfairly are Jewish. They are being denied entrance based on their identity. Paying tuition constitutes a contract, and these schools are not upholding their end.
It’s illegal.
Since you have implied a concern for civil rights, this should bother you deeply. It’s exactly what those MLK-led marches were meant to fix!
Martin Luther King, Jr. was a proponent of civil disobedience that is by definition illegal, which is no obstacle to being on the right side of history.
Strangely, the people who are loudly complaining that they are unsafe on college campuses happen to also be the same people who disagree with the stated aims of these protests. What a mysterious coincidence! What a strange twist of fate!
A more cynical person might suspect that some of this hand-wringing is in fact crocodile tears used as an excuse to silence people who assert the inconvenient truth of Palestinian humanity. They are humans with inalienable rights, they life and breathe and deserve freedom as much as we do. Some people have chosen to view that simple fact as a threat.
The drama…
I don’t need MLK explained. I’m good. As for the various crimes and acts of bigotry committed at these schools, all that needs saying is cameras.
So much of it was caught on camera.
But maybe all those videos are AI. Maybe I’m AI. It’s 2024. Anything is possible when you spin reality hard enough.
““Israel’s right to exist as a state is incontestable.” – Dr. King
Hamas disagrees.
“They are humans with inalienable rights, they life and breathe and deserve freedom as much as we do.”
Yes. I already said as much, as I always do. You probably missed it because you were busy making excuses for slaughter and rape in Israel.
Alexis as posted by Juleann VanBelle on this thread.
“if one goes far enough left and if someone else goes far enough right, they will meet in the middle and do-si-do us straight into fascism. It’s a scientific fact!”
It really encapsulates what is going on today. I can’t stop thinking how brilliant it is.
But president Biden tells us that billions of our money are needed to pay off student debt. You are a mean person if you don’t agree. That’s the logic of this administration. Crazy.
These students do not realize that Hamas would instantly condemn them for their social stances & behaviors. They have more in common with those murdered & abducted by Hamas than they do with Hamas. Their phrases & use of the Hamas symbols is uninformed.
Worry about your schools & their contributions to the climate crisis which could be of a real benefit.
It’s sad to see many college campuses held hostage by a few, angry, deluded protestors this spring. They have abused their First Amendment rights and are finally paying for it. Schools are calling in the police and arresting some of them. Many will then be expelled. That’s a good lesson for these children to learn. Actions have consequences.
I was horrified to read a few days ago that Jewish students were told not to come to the Columbia campus as their safety could not be guaranteed. Really? In 2024? This is incredible! Jewish students and others have been harassed, blocked, spit on, yelled at and more. In the USA? When did anti-Semitism become acceptable at our institutions of higher learning? A small anti-war protest has morphed into a pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic, anti-American, anti-West movement. Where are the parents? Where are the grownups who run these colleges and universities? Is this what we get from our best and brightest students who pay up to $85,000 a year to attend schools like Columbia?
If these anti-Israel, Intefada supporting protestors were instead rioting against the LGBTQ community or the Black community, the DOJ and the president would be on our TVs with a plan to stop the madness on day one.
Schools and businesses across the land have been directed to include DEI programs. The D stands for Diversity. Unfortunately there is little diversity on campus these days. Most professors and administrators are leftists and real diversity of thought and expression is discouraged. Students are indoctrinated early and by the time they get to college, they are ready to act on their beliefs.
The rioting on campus has exposed the higher education system’s failure to carry out their mission to educate our children. We have seen the faces of a new generation of anti-Semites and it is alarming. We have seen many schools fail to address this problem, this cancer as it spread from school to school and are reaping the chaos and anarchy that predictably resulted. Ultimately, we are seeing up close the rot that has been hidden for years at our institutions of higher learning. Maybe some good will come of this crisis when our schools admit they have failed their students, the parents, their alumnae and the country.
Hamas HAD a ceasefire on Oct 6th???
When commentators compare these protests to the protests in 1968 against the Vietnam War it really upsets me. There is no comparison- they were protests and they were on college campuses, that’s the only similarity. How are these students, and the families who are so proud of them, going to feel when they’re expelled for their misguided actions?? This is a very, very complicated situation.Students, please educate yourselves before you mindlessly join in these protests.
Agreed.
It’s not complicated. More than thirty thousand people are dead in Gaza because our government refuses to hold their proxy morally accountable for following the rules of war.
Thank you. The other thing people don’t understand is that this student movement is in not in support of terrorism, but quite the contrary: it’s in opposition to genocide. And now, thanks to the efforts to suppress this movement, it’s about defending the democratic right to free speech.
A risible comment Mintz but you dont know that word. If its opposition to genocide only why are Jews being harmed.?
Hate speech isn’t free speech.
Rules of war.
That’s a real knee slapper.
It might surprise you, but not only are there rules, there are even international laws! Laws that, when broken, can get you sent to prison or even executed. Not if you happen to be a close US ally, of course. I take your point about war being inherently barbaric, though, especially when directed at civilian populations as collective punishment. 👀
Beg pardon, Gayle, but having been seriously involved in protests against the Vietnam war in 1969, 1970, and 1971, I salute these young people for paying attention to and protesting a truly appalling situation that our government is complicit in. Keep in mind that the nationwide student strike of 1970 was triggered by the Ohio National Guard’s killing of four students at Kent State and the subsequent killing of two students at Jackson State in Mississippi. Btw, in 1971, I was among about three dozen students who occupied the university president’s office (this was Georgetown U. in Washington, D.C.) to protest the university’s behavior during the Mayday protests of that year. The university president, red-faced and borderline apoplectic, emerged from his office and expelled us — then, a short while later, repealed the expulsion when he learned that we could appeal his decision. I learned plenty about democracy and the lack of it in those years. It makes me sad and angry to see the Biden administration reacting now pretty much the way the Nixon administration did then.
October 7th is nothing like the Vietnam war protests. That’s an aging hippie wish to relive something, something entirely different and having nothing to do with this explosion of antisemitism. Have a little compassion for your Jewish friends, Susanna, the non-kapo ones, I mean. If you care about Palestinians you’d know that Hamas must be defeated, hopefully by their surrender and hostage release.
The hippies ended the Vietnam War.
Americans tried to dominate the Vietnamese, the hippies stopped them, flower power.
How much longer will the Israelis be allowed to dominate the Palestinians?
Susanna– good comment- I was in the navy at the time
and was very aware of the protesting.
My ship was often met with protests at the docks when
we arrived at ports in Europe. Some here would have you think
that protests are limited to universities in this country,
but the protests against this military action are world wide.
it is not about defending Hamas for its stated goal of eradicating israel.
it is about the lives of innocent people being slaughtered
by a superior military force funded with U.S taxpayer dollars.
I stand with Israel but do not condone this kind of indiscriminate
slaughter. There has to be a better way.
“I stand with Israel as long as they don’t win the war they neither started nor wanted.” There, fixed it for ya, Keller. We know you like the indiscriminate murders of Oct 7th since that’s what you want to see more of by supporting exactly what Hamas wants.
————————
Antisemites want a ceasefire without a Hamas surrender and release of hostages so that Hamas has time to rearm, regroup, and then break the ceasefire and attack, rape, torture and mutilate Israeli citizens, from infants to elderly. That’s what they’ve promised, over and over, and even antisemites believe that’s exactly what Hamas is going to do. So yeah, liberal left antisemites want more Oct 7’s.
There’s always a “but” every time Keller starts off sounding like he’s not going to say something antisemitic, but then he undoes it and says to put all the onus on Israel for ending the war they did not start or want.Keller does not want Israel to win and defeat Hamas. Antisemites never call for the terrorists to surrender and release the hostages. I don’t have to ask why, after 7 months, this has not occured to any antisemite as the least bloody way to end this tragic horror show.
Too late, dear Gayle.
Shameful. Hopefully the enlightened students who have been interviewed and expressed themselves will question and listen and come to reasonable conclusions. I’d be proud to be the parent of any one of the students interviewed.
What part of supporting what Hamas wants would make you proud? What is enlightened about barring Jewish students from campus, spitting on them, taunting them, making them feel unsafe? What is there to be proud of when these kids show not an ounce of compassion for their Jewish classmates?
jackie– they are proud not because they are supporting
a terrorist organization, but are standing up against war crimes
and possible genocide. I kind of thought you were against genocide,
since you bring it up so often. Some genocides are good ?
Some are bad ? You also seem to think that no Palestinian
Americans are ever the target of ignorant racist.
To deny that is happening is pretty ignorant in and of
itself, you know. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arab-american-history-month-2024-rcna146874
Just a few high profile examples of hatred of people of Arabic
ethnicity
“Bias incidents against Arabs range from verbal to fatal. The most high-profile incidents include the fatal stabbing of Wadea Al-Fayoume, a 6-year-old Palestinian American boy, in Illinois and the shooting of three Palestinian men in Vermont.”
Yeah– they deserved it, right ? No innocents here, right ? They are all guilty
and deserve summarily executed, right ?
I haven’t heard any stories of 6 year old Jewish kids being stabbed
to death because they were Jewish, Or jewish college students
being shot because they were wearing a Yamaka in the U.S
Come on– it cuts both ways. Your constant hate speech about
Palestinians does not help the situation. These protestors
are calling for an end to wanton violence. An end to mass murder.
You seem to be calling for more . I don’t think people opposed to free speech
have anything to be proud of. Hate speech is hate speech– if you
don’t want to hear it, you shouldn’t speak it.
And I don’t like the blood libel incident in the West Bank last month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXIcUG8v2Y
Are such atrocities ok with the radical Jews ? Does their hatred run
so deep that they can rationalize these incidents ?
Love begets love. Hate begets hate.
I am proud to be on the side of love.
Cease fire now– and it just might have a possibility of getting the
hostages released.
Of course, we can only hope the IDF forces don’t shoot them as they
try to “surrender”.
The ignorance and hatred reflected in most of these comments is disturbing.
It doesn’t matter how atrocious one believes the crimes of Hamas on 07 October were. The US-backed genocidal war being waged by the Israeli state on Palestinians is criminal under international law. That’s why, according published reports (https://www.axios.com/2024/05/02/israel-icc-warrants-us-senators-meeting), the ICC is considering arrest warrants for Netanyahu. That’s why there is a mass student protest movement that only gets stronger the more college administrators and police attempt to suppress it.
We are in the midst of two historic struggles. One is to stop the slaughter of Palestinians; the other is in defense of democratic rights to free speech and against the neo-McCarthyite repression and vicious lies that falsely conflate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism. Indeed, nothing is more profoundly antisemitic and offensive than equating Judiasm with the actions of the Israeli government.
The courage of the pro-Palestinian student protestors is to be commended.
This comment will surely trigger a torrent of hateful spew from frothing Zionists, which will prove my point.
Mr Mintz you have been wrong on this subject since day one. There is no slaughter of so called palestinians and you are getting your numbers from Al Jazeera and Hamas. Hamas is hiding behind people and hospitals and hostages and they started this whole thing which you would supposedly fight back in only a limited way if at all. There is no McCarthyite repression but only destruction and intimidation of Jewish students. Hamas and Palestinians are one. Gaza is not theirs, it was on loan and they blew it. There is no courage by students only ignorant cowardice and no understanding of history and the Jews rightful claim to the land given them by the Balfour declaration and on which they lived for thousands of years. There is no hateful spewing from Zionists only correction from an evangelical Christian who is grateful for Judaism and Israel.
Are Americans and the Proud Boys/Oath Keepers “one”? Palestinian people, like most Americans, must rely on their political leaders to make decisions on their behalf — most people are busy with day-to-day life, feeding children, etc. I would hope an evangelical christian would understand the complexity of the situation and demonstrate some compassion, understanding that it takes two sides — and a bunch of bad actors — all whom bear responsibility.
VanBelle, my compassion is for Israel. There is no ”two sides”. A postage stamp of a country surrounded by all countries wanting to eradicate it from outside and within. No complexity. Pure demonic evil from Hamas and other Iranian proxies. No military fighting an entrenched enemy in dense urban terrain in an area barely twice the size of Washington D.C. can avoid all civilian casualties. Reports of over 25,000 Palestinians killed, be they civilians or Hamas, have made headlines. But Israel has taken more measures to avoid needless civilian harm than virtually any other nation that’s fought an urban war.
Dropping 2,000-lb bombs on residential areas; bombing refugees even as they are fleeing; using starvation as a weapon, impeding the flow of humanitarian aid; cutting off the supply of fuel, electricity, water; destroying housing, schools, universities, libraries, places of worship; attacking hospitals and the helpless patients therein; murdering journalists; murdering aid workers, such as those from the World Central Kitchen, who had the symbols of international aid clearly showing on the roofs of the cars: are these the sorts of “measures to avoid needless civilian harm” you’re thinking of? The IDF has been committing horrendous crimes against humanity. That’s a fact. Those who say otherwise must be either lying or gravely misinformed.
Well . . . not exactly. Netanyahu knew of the attack planned by Hamas on his people for up to a year. He ignored the warnings, continued to support Hamas financially and did NOTHING to protect or warn his civilians.
There are always at least two sides. Except in this situation Netanyahu and Hamas are on the same side — both of them want to make life as difficult as possible for the Palestinians. Both of them want to kill as many Palestinians as possible. And in this situation, Netanyahu doesn’t mind if some of his people are lost for the cause — the cause of keeping him out of jail.
I’m guessing that if you dig really deep you will find enough compassion to include both Israel and the Palestinians. After all, that is the point of evangelical christianity.
andy– it seems you are quite in favor of Israel going
from the river to the sea and completely
wiping out the palestinian people.
Why not ? They are all guilty of something after all,
according to you. Not only that, they are “invented”
people. We also have the historical record of the battle of
Jericho, which the Israelites invaded and “Following God’s law,
the Israelites killed every man and woman of every age,
as well as the oxen, sheep, and donkeys. But they
spared a few prostitutes and their families.
Joshua 6:1-27
So why not now ? Who can argue with god’s will ?
Unless of course it is the will of a God you don’t
believe in.
Keller. The Battle of Jericho means that God had brought Israel to the place of life and promise. Indeed, the battle also declares that, even within the boundaries of the Promised Land, God would continue to fight for them. The divine promise that “I will be your God, and you will be my people” (Exodus 6:7) remained true. As for so called Palestinians no I dont want them to be wiped out but to live peacefully and not threaten Israel. Gods will prevails. By the way, throwing Old Testament pieces to me willy nilly without context never gets it right.
Andrew, How many Palestinian dead? Israeli?
I’m just trying to understand the endgame.
If somehow all the protesting leads to a cease fire. Who enforces it? How do they enforce it?
Great point.
The UN is an obvious choice — or it would be, if the US weren’t continually vetoing Security Council resolutions that support international law, all to protect its ally Israel as flouts every law and norm that it doesn’t like.
Oh, Susanna. Do you know anything about Jew- hatred, or do you simply enable the thugs who practice it?
Once again, you equate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism. This is disingenuous and absurd. Genocide is not a religion, it’s a crime against humanity. We’re opposed to genocide, not to Judaism. Never mind the fact that a great many of the those who most vocally oppose the slaughter in Gaza are themselves Jews. Your conflation of Judaism with the genocidal practices of the Netanyahu government is itself, ironically, incredibly antisemitic.
An example of gaslighting is when a person is so antisemitic he calls for the “dismantling” of Israel, but then deflects his Jew-hatred by calling someone standing up for Israel’s right to exist, “incredibly antisemitic”. The only genocide, admitted and stated in Hamas’ charter, is intended and attempted by Hamas, the terrorists you support. You support the intended goal of Hamas: genodice of Jews. It happens every generation. If you were opposed to genocide, you’d be calling for Hamas’ surrender and release of all the hostages. Do you think decent people don’t notice?
Your hatred of Israel and Jews is palpable. I understand not liking Netanyahu. I’m not a fan, either, but I do not condemn his response to Oct 7. There was nothing Israel could do that would satify antisemites like you, except be destroyed and lose a war they neither started nor wanted.
I couldn’t stand Trump. And now I can’t tolerate Biden. That doesn’t boil down to wanting to “dismantle” America or to taking the side of any savages who, heaven forbid, invade our borders and mutilate civilians at a music festival and asleep in their beds at home. Tell it to someone who does’t see through you, Mintz.
I want the times to ask these questions to
Or jewish brothers and sister at these schools instead of glamorizing the protest. Do they know that Hamas has turned down a 2 party state not once but 4 separate times. But instead of accepting or even discussion they scream death to Isreal. So yah not really sure why its cool to be a part of these protests that are blatantly antisemitic. Unfortunately untill Hamas is removed as Palestine’s rulers there will never be peace. Hamas is a terrorist group. What evwr happened to we dont negotiate with terrorists. Also can someone explain to me who are in the mass graves thwy found next to the Palestinian Hospitals? They weren’t buried by Isreal thats all i know for sure.
Valid.
A two party state? Which one will be in charge?
Do you know what that “two-party state” might look like? Will it end Israel’s near-total control of the aquifer under the West Bank? Will it remove the illegal Israeli settlements on the West Bank? Will it create a Palestine that is a viable state? I have my doubts.
Try studying the actual history. You could start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine and note that under that proposal, more than half the land was to be given to the Jewish one-third minority of the population. Further note that in 1947-48, over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs where forcibly displaced from their homeland — the place to which they were indigenous — and fled to wherever they could go (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba). That’s how the Gaza strip came to be. People still speak of “two-state solution” as though it were some progressive, enlightened way forward to peace. In fact, there is no equitable way to draw the borders of any two-state solution. (That’s how it is with settler-colonialism. We have a similar problem in the USA: you can’t turn back the clock and undo the extermination of indigenous people or the African slave trade. What you can do is try to build a just and equitable society for everyone.)
The only viable way forward, in the opinion of the most advanced and well-informed thinkers, is a single, secular, democratic state with full social and political equality for everyone. The ethnostate of Israel needs to be peacefully dismantled — yeah you heard me — and de-Zionized. That will be a steep climb and take a long time, but there is no better alternative or realistic path towards peace.
But whatever I say is my opinion. We should also bear in mind that the ultimate resolution is up to the people who actually live there — not the US, not anyone else. Third parties can help with mediation and support, but the final decisions and outcome are up to them, not us. That’s self-determination.
This is a critical Comment thread! My contribution to the mini-town hall:
Higher ed administrations can thank law enforcement personnel for undertaking a truly unpalatable task these past couple of weeks: balancing restraint with “force” in returning civil order to U.S. college campuses. Police forces have been called in as a literal cavalry, because institutional leadership failed to take seriously the threat of chaos and violence inherent in a movement focused on justice for “Palestine:” a non-existent place that lives in the hearts and minds of millions, but whose leaders—beginning right after Israel was established—repeatedly refused opportunities for a two-state settlement with their Zionist counterparts. Intransigence breeds intransigence: thus the progressive rise of the right wing in Israel and its current government, which clearly sees no alternative than the course it has undertaken in Gaza.
President Biden just made a great statement about the protests and the eventual law enforcement response, which speaks to the rights and responsibilities of citizenship in America. Make no mistake: even if their politics are different, the willingness to defy civil society in forcing an agenda was modeled for these kids by Donald Trump and his MAGA minions who attacked the U.S. Capitol.
How quickly people seem to have forgotten what happened on October 7 of last year. Not only did the “peaceful” protests in support of the residents of the Gaza Strip
devolve into militant anti-Semitism and unrealistic demands to dismantle the longstanding partnership between the U.S. and Israel. They also gave rise to a shockingly horrific accusation: calling our President “Genocide Joe.” Hamas has an actual policy of genocide against Israelis. Its tunnels under Gaza City turned all of Gaza into a human shield. And Iran has been its primary funder. These young “pro-Palestine” activists need to get real about all of this in order to achieve credibility: if that is worth anything to them.
The policing issues raised by “Black Lives Matter” are valid in their own right; but social-justice advocates contribute to political disunity when they refuse to acknowledge instances where police actually serve and protect civil society. Liberal Democrats too often default to appeasing any movement that challenges the status quo, no matter how unhinged its rhetoric or how ill-advised its tactics.
This fragile generation of young people are owed a real education, with context: especially regarding the Holocaust, which spurred the establishment of Israel.
President Biden said exactly what needed to be said, to remind us all of what this country is supposed to stand for. We still have the opportunity to throw our republic away in November, and replace it with an actual fascist dictatorship. But I recommend we follow Ben Franklin’s suggestion and do our collective best to “keep it” — by all legitimate means.
Annie, they learned these tactics from Donald Trumps minions? Did you not witness the chaos in the summer of 2020? The fascism that you speak of is coming from the left. We have a 4 years of proof that Donald Trump was not a fascist. We can be offended by his mean tweets and name calling but I would take another 4 years of Trump over Biden and it seems like most of America is coming around to see that as Will. These last three years have been a disaster.
I am not offended by Trump’s tweets and name-calling. I AM offended by his lack of civility and decency; by his lack of knowledge of history and geography; by his lack of intellectual curiosity, his unwillingness to read; by his never-ending tales of lies and falsehoods and by his constant manipulation of the American public. If most of America is “coming around” to (yet again) elect the King of Bankruptcy, well ownership of that should be placed at the feet of our public education system along with the ignorant protestors.
Julianne if you’re not offended by his tweets then what lack of civility are you offended by? History and geography is why you don’t like trump? I could care less if he doesn’t know if is hurricane is going to hit Florida of Alabama as long as he keeps taxes low, the border closed and gas cheap. And the whopper of Trump telling tales? Biden can’t open his mouth without fabricating some story. He plagiarized his entire time at school, never discussed his son’s business, was arrested with Nelson Mandela, drove an 18 wheeler, his son dies in combat and on and on he lies. Trump is an idiot but Biden is worse. The single issue that can save Biden is abortion. It’s the only thing keeping him relevant.
– his lack of civility towards veterans;
– his lack of civility towards people who know more than he does (about oh so many things . . .);
– he appoints people to be an “acting” cabinet secretary to get around Senate approval — step #1 for all fascist leaders;
– he sleeps with sex workers while his wife is pregnant and when they have a newborn son – soooo tacky;
– he wants women to be punished if they have an abortion, but no consequences for the fellas who knocked them up;
– under Trump the U.S. accumulated the most national debt per year he “served” in office — an economic genius he is not;
– he has Very Small Hands . . . I find that particularly offensive.
Ohhh noooo . . . Biden was arrested with Nelson Mandela???
well – the tax cuts went in very large majority to the rich, Mexico apparently did not pay for the wall as promised, and gas was cheap because the economy was shut down by Covid because bleach proved to be ineffective.
I witnessed the chaos of J6.
1,200 have been charged, by “Biden”.
I witnessed chaos in the summer of 2020.
How many did Trump charge?
“The fascism that you speak of”, Trump is on record saying that he will be a dictator on day one of his second term. He indicated one day may not be enough to Make America Great Again.
“These last three years have been a disaster.” Essentially all members of my extended family have increased their income/net worth since boxed up he papers and moved to Mar A Lago.
The poorly/home educated are still struggling. They didn’t get a tax curt.
It bothers me that a former president lies so much
that his minions actually think the last 3 years have
been a disaster. I wonder what you think is so
disastrous ? As far as name calling goes, it seems
the conservatives here get pretty upset whenever I
use the term “maga maggots”. I wonder if any of them
were outraged when the top maggot called Maggie
Haberman “Maggot Haberman”. Some here frequently
refer to liberals as hypocritical anti-semites , and lie about what liberals
think. Sorry, but trump has set the tone.
Don, are you referring to me as one of Trumps Minions? The last three years have been a disaster. Inflation, crime, open borders, assault on fossil fuels, dictatorship of what we drive and how we heat our homes and cook our food. The withdrawal from Afghanistan and the constant lies about white supremacy and divisive rhetoric to keep us divided.
There is hypocrisy on both sides but the civil unrest is being cheered on by elected Democrats. And none of the party leadership is doing anything to admonish those in their party. Although I get annoyed at politicians in general at least the Republicans are holding people accountable in their party. Bob Menenedez and Agular are sitting members on congress under indictment. The republicans threw out George Santos even though they have a historical thin margin
Last thought is about you saying there has to be a better way. What is it? If Israel put their weapons down they would be attacked. If Hamas surrendered the war would end. There was a cease fire on October 6. Hamas teaches that Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth. Short of kidnapping their children and deprogramming them this war will never end. Palestinians have made their choice to fight to the end and Israel is merely giving them what they want.
Interesting how Annie Cook refers to Palestine as “a non-existent place” immediately after referring to the police as “a literal cavalry.” If you’re at all familiar with U.S. history, you’ll remember that the white Europeans arriving on these shores mostly thought there was no one here — no one whose lives and rights were worth respecting, at any rate. And as the U.S. pursued its “manifest destiny” (“manifest to whom,” one wonders), the cavalry was instrumental in pushing the native peoples west and further west, eventually onto lands that the white people didn’t want — at least not until a somewhat later date when oil and other valuable resources were discovered there.
No, the analogy is not exact, between the way white Europeans treated the native peoples of this hemisphere and the way Israel and its Western backers have treated the Palestinians. What we now call North America was large and not thickly settled. The Levant in the first half of the 20th century was relatively crowded with people and *peoples* who’d been there for generations, centuries even. But the parallels are there, and it’s worth our while to learn from them.
Do you have any idea *why* Palestinians “repeatedly refused opportunities for a two-state settlement with their Zionist counterparts? Because the state of Israel was foisted off on the local population by the Allied powers with the assistance of the brand-new United Nations — and Jewish terrorism. Let’s not forget that: the example of the Irgun and Lehi/the Stern Gang demonstrated that terrorism can be very effective when peaceful means fail. (I should note that I have zero trouble understanding why after the Holocaust and centuries of pogroms and persecution, the surviving Jews of Europe wanted to go elsewhere — and the former Ottoman Empire was actually one of the more tolerant places in the world, as long as you paid your taxes.)
Annie Cook writes that “the willingness to defy civil society in forcing an agenda was modeled for these kids by Donald Trump and his MAGA minions who attacked the U.S. Capitol.” Sorry, this is total crap. “Willingness to defy civil society” is in our country’s DNA. Did Ms. Cook never study U.S. history? Does she know nothing about the abolitionist movement of the 19th century or the civil rights movement of the 20th? or about the movement against the Vietnam War? How about all the times that “defying civil society” was necessary to right wrongs and bring us closer to realizing the principles on which the country was founded?
Finally, it’s long past time to re-examine “the long-standing partnership between the U.S. and Israel.” To date this “partnership” has boiled down to something like “give Israel everything it wants but don’t hold it accountable.” Did you know that the two pillars of U.S. policy in the Middle East are Israel and *Saudi Arabia*? That should suggest how little democracy or human rights have to do with it.
“(I should note that I have zero trouble understanding why after the Holocaust and centuries of pogroms and persecution, the surviving Jews of Europe wanted to go elsewhere — and the former Ottoman Empire was actually one of the more tolerant places in the world, as long as you paid your taxes.)”~ Susanna Sturgis
Susanna, that’s very big of you, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you know jewish history in the Jewish ancestral home began well before the Ottoman Empire? You have tried to foist this false and anti-Israel/anti-zionist narrative in these pages before. Trying to intellectualize a version of pro-terrorist false history with these distortions and outright untruths is– deceptive. What does a false moral righteousness have to say about not a single Muslim country, 22 countries alone being neighbors in the Middle East and North Africa, coming to the aid of the Gaza civilians? Nothing? Everything is Israel’s fault and responsibility? Do you know what would happen to you if you bravely protested in Gaza against their treatment of women? Same thing that would happen to me, my dear. Do you know why Israel is the USA’s most important ally in the Middle East? Apparently not.
You clearly do not know why Arab leaders have repeatedly rejected offers for their own land. Making up a lie is not a reason.
You really need to read the Hamas charter and listen to the extremist Islamic leaders discuss why there will never be a 2 state solution and why it has been rejected 7 times since 1948 but accepted by Israel 7 times. And who started a war each and every time, and who broke the ceasefires, each and every time. Arab leaders do not want a state of Palestine as long as there is a state of Israel. Looks like you agree with the terrorists– (the actual terrorists, I mean, the ones who chop off babies’ heads in front of the screaming civilian parents).
It’s unfortunate that you don’t recognize the non-Euopean Jews already living in the land called Palestine in 1946 outnumbered the Holocaust survivors who were to come. Jews were 30% of the population there in 1946. Did you think those Jews got there by a magic carpet ride, but only after Arabs finally arrived?
“There were 1 million Muslim Arabs in Palestine in 1947, 600,000 Jews and about 145,000 Christians. They lived in the region that is now Israel and the occupied territories.” Somehow, 2 million Arabs live in Israel today as fully free citizens. And somehow, another 2 million live in Gaza today, minus those tragically used as shields to protect the cowardly Hamas savages. Not a bad population explosion for a “genocide”. How do you “foist off” a home to people who already lived there, while improving their conditions? Didn’t stop the war first against the new Israel though, did it? Israel won, you’ll be sorry to hear, as they’ve won every subsequent war since then against those attacking and trying to obliterate them. Jews are still here.
And just so you know, you slipped up when you wrote “Jewish terrorism”. What exactly is “Jewish terrorism”? Don’t bother yourself, Susanna, I mean, the truth comes out, even when you’re trying so hard and using such smart words to pretend that’s not what this is about. It’s not the Israel thing, the land thing. It’s the Jewish thing. Thanks for letting us know. Always good to know who’s who and why.
“No, the analogy is not exact, between the way white Europeans treated the native peoples of this hemisphere and the way Israel and its Western backers have treated the Palestinians.”
I’ve heard this argument often. Always from Democrats who are not Native American. Always from islanders who are not part of the local Tribe.
It makes me wonder why they feel entitled to remain here, occupiers of land and users of resources that were, by their very own admission, never theirs.
Seems their thinking only applies when they don’t have to personally sacrifice. Which is why it’s hollow. Like preaching veganism while munching on prime rib.
Some have those “land acknowledgement” email signatures, which really help out anyone indigenous and living in generational poverty.
Jews are native to Israel. But we all know as much by now.
I should note that I don’t personally expect anyone will be leaving the Island. I’ve always championed the opposite—that we should be more welcoming and truly inclusive.
Still, watching people complain about what they’ve deemed stolen land in Israel, all while they remain firmly rooted to undeniably stolen land *here* is a bit rich, even for the okay-for-me-but-not-for-thee party.
We have a local who wants Israel dismantled of all things. I doubt he’ll be signing any property he may own over to the Tribe. Talk is easy, doing is hard.
Like I have said many times before Ms Lane, you have a gift of saying things eloquently and succinctly. I made a similar comment and standby it that do t be a hypocrite and give your land back to those who you think are rightful owners of it. There is nothing stopping those from virtue signaling to taking action. Until such overtures are taken I won’t listen to the hypocrisy.
Our kids are being conned. These protest are being funded by Arab interest that support causing chaos in the USA. Look what we did to any country that ever attacked us. Any country that initiates war can pay a heavy price.
Antisemitic apples don’t fall far from the antisemitic tree. I once had an antisemite on here accuse me of supporting Putin and not caring about Ukraine because there are only minuscule numbers of Jews in Ukraine, not enough for me to care or to talk about in a discussion re Hamas’ invasion of Israel.
Antisemitic tropes such as that one (Jews only care about their own) are ignorant and desperate to rid the “Jew-hater” label off their back. Ukraine’s population at one time was 30% Jewish, including the family of my paternal grandmother. Until the ever popular pogroms when most Jews fled, were driven out, or slaughtered. My grandmother escaped to Poland, and the rest of her surviving family eventually landed in Israel. It happens to every generation of Jews and is reason alone why the Jewish homeland must remain, Israel. My grandmother’s cooking, knitting, embroidery, all her cultural talents, were Ukrainian. Of course I do not love Putin, Cossacks, extremists Islamic proxies, or anyone else trying to kill me and my family. Ignorant antisemites make themselves look worse every day, but some would like to argue that it’s somehow my fault for what Hamas has done to Gaza. Because I’m a Jew supporting Israel’s right to exist and defend herself.
Jackie– nice for you to finally offer a word about Ukraine.
After 2 1/2 years.
But it was only obliquely “supportive” of the plight of the
Ukrainian people, and in no way condemned the unprovoked
invasion by a ruthless communist dictator bent on completely
wiping them out. But I appreciate the baby step.
And i agree that anyone who thinks it is your fault for what
Hamas has done to Gaza is ignorant and probably anti-semitic.
But for some reason the ideals of the conservative side of American politics,
which you firmly embrace, have nothing but contempt for Ukraine.
What other reason could there be except they are anti-Ukrainic .
(yes I’m using that as an adjective )
I support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself as much as I support
Ukraine’s right to exist and defend itself.
Can you say the same ?
,
“Jackie– nice for you to finally offer a word about Ukraine. After 2 1/2 years.”
Jackie spoke out against Putin, with reference to Ukraine, well before Hamas’s invasion of Israel. I am certain. For starters, she called him a thug. So did Andrew. So, I believe, did you, Don. The same goes for various others.
You were each correct. I remember this vividly because it’s one of the few instances where the Times readership has been in total agreement. It may never happen again.
Before anyone twists what I’m going to say next, I, too, feel that Ukrainians and Israelis deserve peace.
You have absolutely not treated Hamas’s war the same way you do war in Ukraine, despite both being obvious tragedies. When the topic was Israel’s survival, mere days after its people were massacred and promised repeats, you insisted that “violence begets violence”. No exceptions.
You also said that the IDF “can’t fight their way out” of this. That they must rely on diplomatic talks with those who want them eradicated. Those who have refused to find agreement for decades.
When the topic is Ukraine, however, you’ve called for more money. More guns. More fighting. More public support. More self-defense…
In short, more war.
You didn’t state that Ukraine’s survival should depend on their ability to charm Putin. You know, as do we all, that he isn’t to be trusted.
I’ve said it before. If violence begets violence, it will do so universally, like scientific law. Not just when you care for the parties involved.
So I tried to find the exact article I had in mind, where everyone agreed on Putin’s character and intent. Can’t seem to locate it.
Luckily, I found a similar discussion in which some of the same opinions, from the same folks, are repeated. And I stand corrected. Jackie did not call Putin a thug.
She called him a murderous thug, which is a far stronger, bolder, truer condemnation of human slaughter than anything the Dems here offer when Jews are brutalized. Or accosted. Or defamed.
This *should* put to rest all insistence that Jackie was silent on Ukraine prior to October 7th. Will it though? Will the debunked attacks stop? Will we allow a grieving person to speak her mind without bullying?
I doubt it. I’m posting the truth anyway for those invested in fairness. And a little thang we used to lovingly call reality; may she rest in peace alongside logic.
P.S. Everyone makes mistakes. Good people apologize and cease the behavior once corrected. I don’t know much about life anymore, but this statement is undeniable to those who value decency.
I hope one day it wins out.
https://www.mvtimes.com/2022/01/19/crisis-ukraine-matters-us/
Katie, in the likely event my first response to you doesn’t see the light of day, I want to be sure you know I thank you.
———
Sadly, truth doesn’t matter to this level of antisemitic hatred. When you first spelled out why specific comments and attacks and lies, often about me, were antisemitic and in violation of this paper’s Terms of Service Agreement to comment, it quieted down the antisemitic attacks— briefly. I naively believed that the Agreement rules were being enforced and the antisemitic offender was barred from commenting, at least on Gaza/Israel topics. Separate rules for Jews, I guess.
Antisemitic comments and attacks are back now, with a vengeance, and with a new, equally ugly voice jumping on. I dared to criticize the antisemitic liberal left’s ill-informed and manipulated children in college/recently graduated, and the flood gates opened. At least some people understand how antisemitic it is to call for a ceasefire without Hamas’ surrender or defeat.
It’s no surprise that there are no attacks against you for thoroughly discrediting one antisemite in particular, at least 2x now. As a Jew, and as should be obvious to everyone, I don’t carry the privilege of respect for my being and my beliefs, except from the few like you who are willing to stand up to the antisemitic lies and bullying that somehow gets past the moderator here. It’s been an eye opening experience for me, and again, not a depth of hate that Doug Cabral would ever have allowed when he was at the helm. Peter Oberfest too had a sensitivity toward the topic, although we disagreed about the obvious antisemitism during the Dershowitz/library talk nonsense. I can’t even find an email address now for the new publisher to voice my concerns, and no one at the MVTimes returns a phone call. But we can all see that antisemitism in a local newspaper doesn’t stop an award and an article about said award. Self congratulations are hardly in order here, but… Antisemitism is simply ordinary among liberal “journalists” these days.
Antisemitic lies are the way of the world now. Anything goes. College kids are calling for “intifada” and their liberal, coddling, antisemitic parents/adults in their lives are cheering them on. This newspaper glorifies the ignorance in this article and never asks these kids an appropriate question, like, “Who and what started this war”?
Jackie, I wish I could give you a hug. You’ve been dragged into the world’s longest round of I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I. A one-sided game, of course. It’s been terrible to watch, so I can only imagine how you feel having to live it. Call some folks out with a stack of proof and they’ll try to find a comparable accusation based on nothing. When you were labeled a Trump supporter, I had to laugh.
It’s all so easily debunked by paying attention to your words. The amount of egg-on-face could be used to serve brunch at the Harbor View, and yet it persists. Sadly, I suspect the people most likely to insult only skim what is said here, more concerned with their own voices than understanding the views of others. Which defeats the purpose of a comments section.
You are absolutely right. This behavior reflects on them, not you. I could go on and on about the moderation. Many of my comments, all clean, have been withheld for the first time in years when directed at two people, while the aggression aimed at you worsens. I am often not allowed to quote facts, even. That makes things difficult, but I will keep trying. Meanwhile, I can’t imagine anything more censor-worthy than saying you’re a disgrace to your religion. One of the most blatant, objective attacks I’ve seen.
We are not the only ones to notice. I have a close friend who’s been reading this paper since the ’90s. She doesn’t post but sometimes comes across my comments and will call me up. We chat about the Island topic of the moment, and it’s generally lighthearted.
The day I tried to define antisemitism, she called in tears over what’s being directed at you. Truly. “Why is this allowed?” she kept asking. I told her I don’t know, and we both echoed what you’ve said—that this wouldn’t have been ongoing in the past. Sometimes it can feel, to me anyway, that it’s just a small bunch of us talking away in a confined space, but our words are seen pretty far and wide. Hatred will never reflect well on a news outlet or the person hurling it about.
Just wanted you to know that there’s more support than it may seem. ❤️ Thankfully, the polls show that more Americans care about Israel’s survival than these discussions would indicate. It’s always the loudest and most strident who get the most attention, but underneath the chaos, I have to hope facts will prevail. There is only so long a country can cheer for its own demise, literally.
Is Putin an antisemitic?
“Because I’m a Jew supporting Israel’s right to exist and defend herself.”
How about “Because I’m a Muslim supporting Palestine’s right to exist and defend herself.”
Does that feel Right?
Even our trolling has gone downhill since October.
Houthis now offer education to students suspended in these pro Hamas protests on college campuses. Warms every antisemite’s heart to know the terrorists wanting to eradicate all Jews from the planet are also applauding the student protests. Good job, indeed.
Jackie, lol. You sound *exactly* like the congressional warhawks in 1970 who told those of us protesting the Indochina war to go join the Vietcong. Who said history doesn’t repeat itself?
Susanna, it’s really sad to see you likening my standing up for Israel’s right to defend itself with an unjust war from when we were so young. I know you like to to talk about all the times you (and I, actually) were on the right side of history in the past, but when a feminist forgets to stand up for the silenced, raped, butchered, and paraded girls’ bodies thru Gaza to be spat upon and hit with boards, it’s tragic. In fact it breaks a heart already so broken I didn’t realize there remained parts still left to be shattered. No #MeToo for your Jewish friends? I’m unable to share your glee in this.
Susanna, you sound exactly like every former hippie I know who uses the oppression of others to bolster their own Forrest Gump-ish narrative. To them, protesting is but a fond memory to be bragged about.
We have a president who still does the same, even when he’s caught lying about all that Gumping.
Susanna, do you not see the difference between invading a country that has done nothing to yours and defending your homeland against decades of escalating attacks? We, your country and mine, killed up to 2,000,000 innocent civilians in Viet Nam. Israel has killed less than 40,000 in the most crowded conditions on earth in their effort to destroy a terrorist government bent upon their complete annihilation. They could have solved their problem in a few nights, like we did in Dresden and Japan. I protested the war in Viet Nam, but I am ashamed by what I see happening at Universities now.
sorry Scott– but the escalating attacks have been coming
from Israel into Gaza for decades. i can pull up videos
of Israeli tanks going into Gazan neighborhoods and flattening
whole neighborhoods over decades.
You mention Dresden and Japan.
Are you advocating for the firebombing of Fafah, where over a
million citizens have been ordered to go to by the israeli
military as they destroyed over 60 % of residential housing and all infrastructure
including medical facilities in northern Gaza ? Herd them in , and burn them all ? is that what you are saying ? It sounds like it— or better yet, now that Israel has herded most
the population of people they want to exterminate, a nuke or
2 would be easier ?
Sorry-You’re not gonna get my support on that one anymore than I’m
going to support Russia nuking Tel_Aviv.
I just don’t have that much hate.
Source?
This is terrible news. How dare anyone be supporting terrorism. GO TO GAZA and leave our country—antisemitism at its finest.
As we have seen with the raising of the Palestinian flag in place of the American flag and people illegally crossing our border waiving their counties flag it is evident that people are invading this country not to become Americans but to fundamentally change it. And we are willfully obliging. If you are coming to the best country in the world why do you want to change it? For all the those protesting and shouting death to the America and KKK is NYPD there is nothing keeping you here. The border works both ways. I suggest you use it. Assimilate or leave.
Harsh, but I am afraid it’s a needed bit of tough love right now. Still, we need to go easy on the young freshmen and sophomores from MV and elsewhere in America who have been pulled into thing out of a sense of moral obligation. That sentiment is beautiful; I just don’t want them spending too much of that “goodwill capital” on what essentially seems to be an imported Jihad that will use them as willing dupes, then turn on them because this movement is the ultimate form of “identity politics:” identifying as pro-Palestinian instead of loyal to the United States. Any young person who is a U.S. citizen will hopefully realize that “identity” is a privilege and a duty.
Annie, I reread my comment and it is harsh. I believe in second chances and I do live by a mistake is a mistake when you make it twice. But I am not ready to give up my freedoms for the fascist left. Consequences are needed for our actions and our laws need to be enforced. Enough is enough. Take back our country.
And yet — women in 21 states have lost the freedom to access reproductive health care — thanks to the fascist right. It’s true — if one goes far enough left and if someone else goes far enough right, they will meet in the middle and do-si-do us straight into fascism. It’s a scientific fact!
Carl, you mentioned not wanting to give up your freedoms for fascism; totally agree with you. Have you happened to read Madeleine Albright’s book, “Fascism, A Warning?” She has a few ideas to protect our freedoms. If you haven’t read it yet, think you might like it.
Juleann, great comment. So thought provoking and absolutely true. We are seeing the left and right close to meeting now right in front of our eyes. I do however think it’s an exaggeration that woman have lost access to reproductive health care. 70% of us think that there needs to be reasonable limits on abortion. The far right I think have it wrong and I don’t blame anyone who makes this election a one issue referendum about abortion. The right has to admit defeat and move on. Thanks again for making me think! And I’ll be using your comment in my debates going forward. I’ll footnote you.
“Still, we need to go easy on the young freshmen and sophomores from MV and elsewhere in America.”
Annie, I respectfully disagree on this point. Children have special allowances made for them because we acknowledge their lack of judgment and heightened sensitivity. Adults don’t benefit from the same.
These student groups aim to control the outcome of a foreign war, and to alter our relationship with an ally.
Only the mature should get a say in something so consequential. If they’re prepared to impact countless lives, they must be open to blunt, truthful feedback. The same criticism we all face.
Plus, many young adults across the country are engaging in dangerous, criminal acts under the cover of legal protest. They’re harassing and assaulting others. The way so many react to any mention of Jewish victims, or to photos of the hostages, tells me their goal is not peace for all.
It’s been my experience that kids from MV tend to be more coddled in comparison to their off-Island peers. I’ve noticed it for a long time and think they’ve been done a disservice.
“Assimilate or leave.”
Is that what the Wampanoag’s should have insisted that John Mayhew do?
Ummm, yes.
Carl, I cannot believe that replacing our flag with a foreign one hasn’t received more genuine outrage.
Then again, I cannot believe a lot of what’s happening before my eyes. Clearly I need to address some lingering naivete. Or just kill off all hope.
Back in ye olden days–aka a few years ago–we had a label or two for flag-swapping, and the connotations weren’t positive. We also pretended to be a nation that stands against hatred.
Now any self-sabotaging thing goes. Worse, it’s celebrated. Something tells me we may regret, and soon, being permissive of aggressors who promote “Death to America” in various forms. Ya think?
Make America Normal(ish) Again.
Katie–I never called Jews” frothing and rabid” I may have
referred to an anonymous individual as frothing and rabid .
If that person who were frothing and rabid happened to be
jewish, that is not saying that all jews are
frothing and rabid. Do you think that because someone is
jewish they can’t be frothing or rabbid when they are
commenting on something? Look at the comments
there are plenty of frothing comments about
eradicating the Palestinian people. Remember, some rabid
commentators here think none of them
are innocent, so they must all be savages. If “A”=”B”
then “B” equals “A”
Do Jews somehow have
immunity from saying hateful things ? if a Jew calls for Israel
to go from the river to the sea and exterminate a culture
and population of 2 million people, are they immune from
criticism ? That seems like a pretty privileged spot to be in.
Nice to just be able to play the anti semitic card every time
someone disagrees with you. Sorry, but I don’t believe
that god gave his so called chosen people the right
to never be criticized. To believe that is about as
supremacist as you can get. I don’t see how Jews cannot be
criticized for defending or advocating for genocide.
“I never called Jews” frothing and rabid” ”
That is precisely what you said, divided up between two different comments. You paired a series of insulting, degrading adjectives with “chosen people”, which is plural. It was a blanket statement, and if someone said that, or a fraction of that, about any other group, I know from vast experience how you would react.
These terms, expressed this way, qualify as hate speech. Word games don’t work on me.
Everyone can read for themselves.
https://www.mvtimes.com/2023/11/30/for-a-permanent-ceasefire/
Jackie doesn’t use goyim, by the way. You do, and it shouldn’t be posted here. It’s a slur.
Carl– don’t worry– they will not replace us–
Well, they are doing a pretty good job trying to. Without consequences. I get what you did there Don, but you must admit there is a certain segment of recent immigrants looking to fundamentally change this country. Not admitting that is burying your head in the sand.
I wonder how terrified the people of Gaza are right now.
I hope they are terrified. They woke a sleeping giant and now must face the consequences. Let them collect their participation trophy in the next life.
These are terrorists who should be treated as such
So Mike– are you really saying that anyone who is opposed to the
war in Gaza is a terrorist ?
So Keller, are you really saying you want the terrorist savages of 10/7 to get away with their war crimes and intent to commit a genocide against Jews??? My God.
Jackie– I am not saying that at all. Your use of words
tells us a lot about the thinking of Islamophobes.
Let’s talk about history, and the power language;
When the Europeans invaded the western hemisphere,
they justified the genocide of the indigenous people
by labeling them “savages”.
When the nazi’s came to power they justified the genocide
of the Jewish people by using propaganda like this:
“Rats, lice, cockroaches, foxes, vultures – these are just some of the animals the Nazis used to deride and dehumanize Jews. They used words too. In a new linguistic analysis of dozens of Nazi speeches, articles, pamphlets and posters, researchers show how this process of anti-Semetic dehumanization, which began before the Nazis took power and helped fuel the party’s popularity, was modulated to justify atrocity: in the years before the Holocaust, Jews were represented as a being incapable of human feeling. Coinciding with the Nazis’ early efforts to exterminate them, European Jews were depicted as agents of evil, as demons, as a nefarious cabal scheming up threats. The consequence, whether intentional or not, was to overcome the moral barriers to their mass elimination. By the end of the war, the Third Reich had systematically murdered six million Jews.”
In Rwanda the Hutus justified the genocide of the Tutsis by
referring to them as “cockroaches” .
Perhaps Mike would like to see the national guard shoot
some of these “terrorist” as they did at Kent State
in 1970 -Anti war protestors then were described a “commies”
“reds” “maggot infested hippies” “immoral radicals” “traitors”
and more vive things. Many people cheered those deaths, you know.
In 1964 when some “N—– loving” freedom riders as they
called them, were murdered, some were quite happy.
If the national guard moved on Columbia protestors and killed a few,
How do you think Fox news would react ? Would they be sympathetic to the “terrorist” students.
I have never said anything to support the extremist of 10/7…
Israel , and certainly not “the Jews” are to blame for the
attacks on 10/7, but,encouraging a rogue government, that has been
condemned by nearly every agency and country in the world to commit
blatant war crimes, including summary executions, destruction
of electrical and water infrastructure, the destruction of medical
facilities, educational institutions and food supplies is a “savage” act.
These crimes are not lies–
And just today,Israel banned Al Jazeera, the only news agency
in Gaza, from reporting on these atrocities and stealing their equipment.
All other outside news agencies were already banned from entering Gaza.
Yeah– Hitler shut down the press also.
It’s amazing what you can get away with if no one protests.
““Rats, lice, cockroaches, foxes, vultures – these are just some of the animals the Nazis used to deride and dehumanize Jews.”
Unreal.
How is this different from calling Jews frothing and rabid?
It’s not. Not in the slightest.
PSA
Any comment that starts out with my name and then tells an antisemitic lie about me, is not read by me. I stop right there. The unread comment may look long and perhaps like it took some time to write, but it was a waste of time if anyone thinks I’m going to read more antisemitic blather from the same old antisemetic source. I always read and appreciate every brilliant word Katie Lane writes, and from this comment of hers, I can pretty much tell what the antisemite had to say. For a change. Lol.
Definitely the one saying death to America, they are clearly enemies and should be dealt with.
Like the J6 MAGAs?
Would anyone, especially the heavy hitters of the comment section, be willing to have a live televised discussion/debate?
I would watch, I might even pay to see that. The Times, Gazette, and MVTV should get together and make it happen.
President Biden has a growing problem heading into the fall election. His far left base has turned ugly, trying to change middle east policy and intimidate independent and conservative voters. Democrats have an antisemite problem. The DNC is scrambling to deal with anti Israel protesters on campuses across the nation. They are promising to disrupt the Democrat convention in Chicago this summer. Stay tuned…
Great comment, Peter.
Columbia has had to cancel their large graduation ceremony, with only the smaller ceremonies planned to take place- because of the serious security concerns from protesters. I wonder what all the protesting geniuses think this has done for the trapped children stuck shielding Hamas in Rafah? Hearts and bodies break in an orchestrated-by-terrorists war, and idiots protest in US colleges while accomplishing nothing except alienating their Jewish classmates and the voting parents who’ve sacrificed for their kids’ tuitions, while handing the presidency to a guy who has so little respect for American jurisprudence that he may be sitting in jail come November, a place where, unlike the courtroom, the jail’s thermostat is set to “tough toenails, big boy”.
There are old hippies who think that rallying now for the same goals that Hamas wants is somehow good for Gazans, good for America, and a sweet throwback to what they sorta remember from their own smoky youth. These are the distortions of old age. I don’t have the heart to tell them their ship has sailed– as has mine. It’s all about our supposed “wisdom” now and what we leave behind. Stop coddling ignorance. If one of these protesting kids had to work to pay their own tuition or had an ounce of gratitude toward their parents for their sacrifices, they’d be too busy working or studying to throw their education away like this, demanding a catered protest because they’re on the paid meal plan at school.
“Democrats have an antisemite problem. ”
??
I think the Democrats—Republicans, too—have a genocide problem.
I honestly have to wonder where readers of the MV Times get their news.
Did any commenters actually read the article?
Watch the news coming out of Washington these days. More and more democrats are panicking because their side has an anti-Semite problem which has taken front stage at campuses across the nation. The looming Democrat convention looks like 1968 all over again. Radicals and leftists have moved the party further left and may derail the president’s re-election efforts. This will help Trump win. Not a Trump supporter but I can’t say I don’t enjoy the Left eating itself.
I bet a lot of good or even necessary ideas look pretty radical to the over seventy set.
I’m way under 70, and eveything you’re saying still sounds radical, in the worst sense.
Katie, hypothetically, how bad would the civilian death toll have to get for you to revise your opinion of the Israeli strategy? I know that with a lot of these oldsters, they really just see it as an us vs them issue, and they don’t care if 1.7 brown peoples’ homes are blown up and they are driven into the desert to starve, but maybe there’s a red line somewhere in the grotty recesses of your personal morality?
Alexis, it’s called pain compliance and in war you would rather inflict the pain than have it imposed on you. You know as well as anybody that if Hamas put down their weapons and freed the hostages the war would stop instantly. The pain goes away. I’m just glad that you are not in the position to defend this country as you clearly don’t have the stomach for it.
We read your last letter to the editor, Kate, the one where you praised the mentally ill man in Washington DC for self-immolating in front of the White House in support of “Palestine”. And then you went on to praise Hamas as “freedom fighters”. I read the unedited version too, that ceasefiremv published online. The hatred of Jews with an urgency to justify it is so great within you that I feel sorry for you. I also read the peanut gallery’s kvetching about how the MVTimes made you edit your letter before they’d publish it, too, and all I can say is thank God they did. The unedited version is Nazi talk, not that what the MVTimes published was not disgusting enough.
“red line somewhere in the grotty recesses of your personal morality?”
Oh, the maturity.
You’ve obviously no grasp on my full position on Israel, and I have no desire to explain it to someone who makes this many wrongful, aggressive assumptions in one post.
I care about every life lost and have held that position since day one. You showed utter disdain for the existence of Israel, let alone what was visited upon them. I will leave it at that.
Can Kate Scott please define her distorted idea of what genocide means?
Ms Sturgis. did you know that Jordan attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel due to the spoils of war captured the West Bank. Israel settlements there are not illegal unless you want to listen to the PLO and the UN. The West Bank is Judea and Samaria, biblical names for Jewish territory. If Israel had not handed over Gaza and the West Bank out of compassion we would not be in this mess now and so called Palestinians would be assimilated back in their countries of origin.
Mr Engelman. did you know that monotheists have been slaughtering monotheists in the region for a thousand years.
Did you know that some residents of Gaza have been on the land for tens of generations?
The average Israeli, second generation.
More trolling, antisemitic lies from Hess.
The Palestinians’ country of origin is, er, Palestine.
Nope Ms Scott. Incorrect. Jews way before so called Palestinian
Ignorant, untrue, Kate Scott. It is antisemitic to intentionally be deceptive about Palestinians “country” of origin. There were many countries these people now calling themselves Palestinians came from. Jews living in Israel were called Palestinian too for a while. In fact, the Arab colonizing of the Jewish homeland was not done by the indigenous people: Jews. Not recognizing the history of Israel is like denying the holocaust or the savagery of 10/7, but that’s where we are with the Jew haters who tell a lie often enough they think they can rewrite factual history.
andy– you do know the history– but your fantasies about what could
have been are just that– Fantasies,
But to follow your logic, if the Arab nations were successful
in the 6 day war of 1967, we would not be in this mess now and the so called Israelites would be assimilated back in their countries of origin.
Woooo– how anti-semitic is that ?
Nowhere near as the anti-arabic comment above, I guess.
Again– antisemite — bad
anti Arabic– good.
Israel handed over Gaza and the West Bank out of compassion ?
“Compassion” Really ?
Come on buddy —
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank
Mr. Engleman, you, like so many others, like to skip most of the 20th century and jump back to biblical times. I suggest starting instead with World War I, when the British and, to some extent, the French made contradictory promises to several parties, mostly in the interest of furthering their war and postwar goals. Check out the Hussein-MacMahon correspondence of 1915–1916, in which Henry MacMahon (the British high commissioner in Egypt) pretty much promised Hussein (sharif of Mecca, whose sons Faisal and Abdullah played major roles in the war against the Ottomans) that the British would support an independent Arab state in return for Arab support in defeating the Ottoman Turks. Then review the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, in which the British and French divvied up the Levant for themselves once the Ottomans were defeated.
Then along came the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which the British government “view[s] with favour” the establishment of a “Jewish home” in Palestine “it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” Those “existing non-Jewish communities” made up about 93% of the population at the time, most of them Palestinian Arabs, Muslim and Christian.
Do you begin to see the problem? and why invoking biblical times really isn’t all that helpful? If your land was used as a bargaining chip by European powers, and you given virtually no say in the matter, you might be just a little bit angry about it. That’s enough for today. Take some time to digest it. Do a little reading on your own — the information is out there. If you have any questions, ask away.
Susanna, I see you would like the history of the Jewish presence in the land we now call Israel to begin when it’s convenient for the antisemitism you promote. Antisemites have indeed attempted to cut off Jews, not just from their history, but from life itself. Antisemitism is the oldest continuous prejudice on earth.
You can’t begin anyone’s history at the virtual present. Did nothing happen in your life to form who you were at 50, 60, or 70? Were you conceived and born at 65? Your argument makes no sense, unless you want to justify your hatred for Israel and that Jews have no right to their indigenous land, nor any right to self-determination on their own land, and, according to every antisemite on the planet, no right to fight and eliminate invading savages whose ONLY goal is to kill every Jew on earth, not just in Israel. You and a few others on here have twisted reality into a justification for the Jew hating lies about “Jewish terrorists”, frothing chosen people, and rabid Zionists.
Susanna, your dismissal of historical fact and wish to talk only about a virtual yesterday, fell apart the last time you tried to foist your false narrative of Jewish presence only beginning in Israel during the ottomans. That’s an untrue but purposeful, antisemitic lie, and you are too smart to pretend you don’t know that.
————-
It’s as though the loud and proud antisemitic lies in these pages for the last 7 months have succeeded in emboldening other Jew haters who may have been reluctant to announce their antisemitism— and then try to justify it with malarkey. There’s a reason why Jewish islanders aren’t really getting into the fray here: they do not wish to subject themselves to the antisemitic attacks I’ve been subjected to. This is the most transparent Jew hatred I have ever seen. Not even trying to hide it anymore.
Ms Sturgis. Yes the great powers made all manner of agreements and shuffled around people and made political treaties. I had no say in the matter as a refugee and displaced person for 19 years but assimilated into the USA. We know all that. We did it to Germany after WW1. Yugoslavia was defederated. The Soviet Union, USA before the Pilgrims. The list is endless. My point is that Jews preceded so called Palestinians. Palestinians are an invented people made up of many mid eastern countries. I am well educated, fled Communism, lived in 11 countries and visited 100. I have been to Israel and am well acquainted with Iran having lived there for 2 years. My love is for Jews and Israel. Gaza and the West Bank does not belong to the. Live their peacefully but don’t plot to eradicate Israel.
It strikes me as more than a little arrogant of you to assume that you are the only person in this discussion that is familiar with the geopolitical history of The Levant. In fact, Mr. Engleman posted a comment several weeks ago that is strikingly similar in content to your own, but without the snark. I’m not sure why you would assume that he would need to ask you anything on the subject. Also, he did not attempt to “jump back to biblical times” as you suggest. He merely pointed out that the administrative area of Judea and Samaria (which includes the West Bank) bear the names of ancient Israelite kingdoms as a means of refuting the contention that Jews are relative newcomers to the area and usurpers of the birthright of “indigenous” peoples. It’s a valid point, and one that you appear to be attempting to invalidate by dismissing it as religious zealotry.
Good comment, Bert. Both Andrew and Jackie have demonstrated a deep and helpful understanding of Israel’s history that we can learn from.
Thank you, Bert. Denial of facts that include archeological proof, history, and a supposed promotion of self determination for every minority marginalized group, except Jews, are part of liberal left hypocrisy. And they’re pretty arrogant about it, as you note. I appreciate your well reasoned comment that spells out a reality that anti-Zionists fail to see.
For those who try to legitimize their own antisemitism by using the antisemite, Ralph Nader’s linguistic and false twist of the use of “semite”:
https://www.jns.org/ralph-nader-targets-the-jews-and-linguistically-hijacks-anti-semitism/
This is such an old an antisemitic argument, but maybe trolls are just not able to learn anything.
Everyone should listen or read Gilad Erdan speech at the UN. This is a brave man.
Give it a break, Jackie– Nader was a nut. You severely biased and
mostly untrue opinion piece in the Jewish news syndicate is a
laughable attempt at portraying all goyim as anti semitic.
Maybe the semitic trolls are just not able to learn anything.
I do not give a break to antisemitism, no matter how many antisemites wish I would. It’s my job as a proud Jew and a way I can honor those Jews who were tortured and murdered. Yesterday was Holocaust Remembrance Day. Pointing out the antisemitic behavior is the least I can do. I have no idea where you cooked up a lie about an article I wrote? How about a link to this phantom piece, lol. This is another of your unsober sounding rants, Keller, and it violates the Terms here. It’s antisemitic to the nth.
When you use the Yiddish word goyim as a slur, which you do several times in these pages, you embarrass yourself. I’m not the only one who notices that you fantasize so incorrectly about who I care about.
Why don’t you address Katie’s clearly defined reasoning regarding proof of your antisemitism? Why don’t you apologize to me? I often forgive people when it’s sincere, as I hope others forgive me when I’ve been wrong. I’m not wrong about this, Keller. The only people who struggle with trying
this hard to discredit me or humiliate me or turn me into someone I am not, are… the Jew haters. They’re the only ones who object to a word I have to say. Funny how that works.
We are starting to see a sea change in these “protests” from anti Israel to anti American to anti capitalism. The burning of the American flag and death to America chants should be met with a one way ticket to Gaza. Let those spoiled brats see what life outside the USA is like. Maybe they should look to what Brittany Griner has to say about this country after kneeling for national anthem and then spending time in a Russian prison. Hint, she doesn’t kneel for the national anthem anymore.
These spoiled indoctrinated future leaders of the Democratic Party are blathering about things they don’t understand and offer no solutions to. I would like to propose that all who take to the streets and overtake college campuses must put forward articulable solutions to their whining protests. What good does it do to carrying on with no offerings to help. It’s a joke. It’s the same with the liberal hypocrites here demanding a cease fire. Why so Hamas can get the upper hand? How do reason with a group of people who refuse to accept anything but death to all Jews and America? Unfortunately at the end of the day only one group is going to stand or hopefully one will change their ways. And freedom is not going anywhere.
And just follow up on my earlier comment. These people are supposedly the best and brightest. Why aren’t they using their exceptional talents and time by starting a movement to gather supplies and devising logistics to get donated goods to the people of Gaza. We saw a huge movement for sending supplies to Ukraine. Could it be that this has nothing to do with helping people of Gaza but instead to cause strife here at home. Truly think about how these colleges bring people together to help the innocent people of war. Why not send those tents over to Gaza and all the other useful equipment they used over to the people of Gaza? I could only imagine the real good they could do if their privilege didn’t get in their way.
Spot on, Carl. I didn’t think of this aspect, but you’re right. The resources, physical and mental, squandered on angry protest could do actual good overseas if redirected. Lighting a candle vs. cursing the darkness. Or, in the case of ‘Death to America’, becoming the darkness.
carl–World kitchen tried that–and they were murdered.
But regardless of that, how would you propose that any of the
donated goods into Gaza? You might not have heard about it if
you only get your news from right wing sources, but Israel
has a pretty good siege of the territory and about the only
thing they are allowing into Gaza is American made bombs.
Don, I don’t have an Ivy League education but I did see the private sector come together after Bidens failure in the evacuation of Afghanistan where former special forces operators went in on their own to rescue our people left behind. All because of Bidens utter failure and weakness.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-special-operations-vets-carry-daring-mission-save/story?id=79670236
But to answer your question air drops from high altitude planes with food and medical supplies. But to others comments Hamas will just take those supplies for themselves further depriving their own people. But none the less putting together a plan like that is time better spent than virtue signaling protests. Their time would also be spent better studying for their finals.
Another antisemitic lie. Hamas bombed the Kerem Shalom entry of aid from Israel into Gaza so Israel had to close it. The US pressured Israel to open it and this morning they did. Hamas immediately bombed it again.
An antisemite can’t remember what he said yesterday about genocide, but no trouble glomming onto an Israeli caused tragedy resulting from bad intel and improper IDF procedure, as PROOF, PROOF I TELL YOU, that Hamas aren’t so bad that they shouldn’t get their ceasefire but without surrendering — so they can regroup and rape snd torture and kill more Jews, as promised.
When Biden cuts off military aid, after the US bill was passed to send aid to Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, it frees Israel from the pressure not to win the war from doddering, inept, traitorous Biden. It also ensures the election of Trump in November. Now I read even the antivaxer running for President has a brain problem. How hard is it to expect our presidential candidates to have a working brain? None do.
Pro Hamas antisemites tell half a story, or a story out of context, or they simply lie, repeating exactly what terrorists have manipulated them to repeat. It’s who antisemites are.
Pro Hamas antisemites of the liberal, left, hypocrite ilk, look for excuses, even lies about “Jews are starving Gaza babies”, to justify and spread their hatred of Jews and Israel. Hamas are starving their own poor babies. Antisemites don’t care a fig about Palestinians. They’re hating Jews too much to bother.
Pro Hamas lefties gaslight American Jews with watered down definitions of Nazi and genocide, so they can accuse Jews of favoring a Nazi genocide against Gazans, which coincidently is what is done to Jews when Jew haters are given half a chance. 2 different people used this disgusting gaslighting tactic against me personally in this very thread. That’s how Jew haters roll.
Before the comments close, I just want to thank everyone who addressed what’s wrong with these protests and the way Israel is often portrayed. There are many thoughtful, helpful replies and not enough time to engage with them individually. I read each one and gained some further perspective.
After posting elsewhere for the last few months and encountering no balance or detailed takes on the subject, just one-sided buzzwords, I really appreciate the points raised and articulated. This is an extremely painful, difficult topic for good reason, but it has to be openly analyzed with care.
So I have read and observed the anti Israel comments on this thread and those of the protesters screaming about stopping the genocide and blaming Israel committing those acts.
Genocide is defined in § 1091 and includes violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Isn’t it Hamas that’s has it spelled out in their charter to kill all Jews? I wouldn’t call what Israel is doing a genocide I would call it self defense. We are living in a time where we change the definition of words and turned accepted principles of science upside down to appease a few people’s feelings. The gaslighting needs to stop. The Jewish genocide needs to stop. Sanity needs to prevail.
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