Aquinnah will show its pride for the foreseeable future, which the town’s top official said affirms town values in the midst of a tense national political climate.
Previously, the up-Island town has only flown a Pride flag for Pride Month in June. But a Progress Pride flag is now on the town-owned pole at Aquinnah Circle well into July.
Town administrator Jeffrey Madison told the select board at its Tuesday meeting that now is not the time to take down the flag, and that further, it never will be.
The select board approved his recommendation at the meeting.
“Despite the fact that Pride Month has come and gone, in these days — of the Supreme Court making rulings that limit a woman’s healthcare, and seem to allow the execution of members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and any actions by a president that are unlawful, when books are being banned from libraries, when voting rights are being terminated — I feel that this community should express its feeling that all residents of the U.S. should have the same rights, and not hesitate to point that out,” Madison told The Times.
“People in this country need to stand up for those rights, and do everything at a grassroots level for those rights,” he added.
Aquinnah’s decision, and its lack of regulations for town-owned flagpoles, differs from other Vineyard towns. After the Supreme Court’s Shurtleff v. City of Boston decision sent municipalities scrambling to regulate flags on town property, Oak Bluffs, Chilmark, and West Tisbury approved similarly restrictive policies.
The Supreme Court’s unanimous decision, reached in May 2022, stated that the city of Boston violated the First Amendment when it denied a private group’s request to fly a Christian flag on a City Hall flagpole. The request concerned the hall’s third flagpole, where private groups had for more than a decade been allowed to fly flags.
A week after the decision, Oak Bluffs was the first Vineyard town to restrict flags on town flagpoles. Its interim policy approved only U.S., state, town, and official military and prisoner of war/missing in action flags. This also followed the Martha’s Vineyard NAACP asking the town to fly a Pride flag.
Late town counsel Ron Rappaport explained legal concerns at the time: “[If] the government is in favor of Pride Week, that’s fine. The government’s speaking. What the government can’t do is open the flagpole up as a public forum, and then decide what can be flown and what can’t be flown … once you open it up, you can’t pick and choose,” he said.
The town amended its policy a year later, allowing ceremonial flags to fly for up to 14 days at a time.
Madison told The Times that he was not interested in regulating flags on the town-owned flagpole in Aquinnah. “I don’t care what other towns do,” he said. “We don’t have any regulations about who or what.”
“Perhaps other towns would like to take our practices,” he suggested.
He also said that anyone’s concerns can be brought to a select board meeting.
When asked what would happen if Aquinnah received a request to fly a political flag, Madison did not entertain the question. “I won’t get into answering hypothetical questions,” he said.
Vineyard towns have recently been asked to fly more controversial flags. Last December, the Pro Life Legal Defense Fund asked West Tisbury to fly a flag reading “pro-life, pro-mother, pro-father, and pro-child.” The town then passed its policy, similar to Oak Bluffs’, though it did not allow ceremonial flags.
What rights do all citizens not have? Please let me know. Is there a right to an abortion in the constitution?. It is not a right not to be offended. It is not a right that everyone must agree with you. Is it a right to have pornographic books in all libraries. The voting rights issue is laughable especially since last election where fraud was manifest. Everyone who wanted to vote voted. Ballot stuffing everywhere. By all means fly the Pride flag all year if you must but dont tell us all Americans dont have equal rights. Sometimes rights are trampled upon by bad people but the rights still exist.
“The voting rights issue is laughable especially since last election where fraud was manifest”. Seeing as you are an immigrant Mr Engelman maybe you aren’t fully versed in how things are done here. If a citizen or group of citizens alleges voter fraud and has standing they are welcome to bring their case to court. In court a finding of facts will be made and a judgement rendered. It has been four years since the last election and exactly zero people have proven any fraud. It can therefore be surmised that despite the fever dreams of some radicals there is no proof at all of voter fraud in this great country.
Holmes. You believe crimes are not committed unless they are adjudicated in a court of law. There is plenty of proof but it never went to court. Let me ask you. If someone broke into your home and stole say a diamond and the burglar was not caught. Was the diamond not stolen?
Andy, please post a legitimate news source that can prove there was fraud. Doesn’t have to be anything about it going to court or anything along those lines, just actual proof that there was fraud, or ballet stuffing. Just one, that’s all I’m asking for. I’m betting you won’t/cant. I will tell you this though, everything I’ve found about fraud or ballet stuffing, it was committed by republicans.
Jim, don’t tell andy about this…
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/587483-georgia-investigators-find-four-cases-of-deceased-voters-casting-ballots-in/
and the results of the investigations of the 4 dead voters.
https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_3587fdca-a41a-4d9d-9f51-561dd7eef7c3
andy– it went to court more than 60 times.
Sorry– the lawyers never produced any evidence
that would be admissible in court.
A made up movie about mules is not evidence.
BUT–if someone broke into your house and
when the police interrogated you you CLAIMED
they stole a diamond. But when they asked your wife
about the diamond, she tells them she never saw
a diamond in the house. So then to police and the
insurance company start asking questions.
Like “when and where” did you get this diamond that you
are claiming was stolen ? Do you have a receipt for the
purchase ? Has it ever been assessed for it’s value ?
Do have any pictures ? Can you reference any other person
who has ever seen this diamond ?
Now of course it’s possible that you had a dream about a
diamond once or twice, but if you can offer no proof of it,
did the diamond ever exist ?
Eventually, if you can’t
offer ANY proof that the diamond existed, they might charge
you with insurance fraud or lying to the police.
Both of which are crimes.
And then if you double down and decide to accuse , without any evidence your African American neighbor of stealing it, took out a full page
add accusing them of it while slandering their character, and
publishing their name and address in the hope that some
of your thug friends might harass them, they might sue you.
And when they won the slander case– they could get your whole house.
Especially if the court determined there was never even a
burglar, let alone a diamond.
See how it works ? It can be a little complicated sometimes.
When you sow your vile seeds, do you ever consider what happens to our country when no one believes in election results?
For some reason The Times did not publish my response to Mr Engelman’s comment equating the theft of an object from a house with enough voter fraud to turn a national election. I guess pointing out how much of a stretch this comparison is offends some people’s sensibility. Let me just point out. There is no proof of voter fraud. None. Hope pointing this simple fact out isn’t worse than equating commenters with accessories to attempted murder!
Sometimes rights are trampled upon by bad people – MAGA?
Andrew, how do you explain fraud in 2020? Voters voted AGAINST Trump and on the SAME ballot voted for down ticket Republicans. If it was ballot stuffing and fraud, then why didn’t you complain about the wins from down ticket Republicans?
Hansen I am not saying Trump should have won. I am simply saying there was fraud. Do deny it is naive.
No, Andrew, there was not fraud in the election. Our voting systems are solid and reliable.
Just to lift one paragraph out of an article published in 2021
“Across the country, 1 in 16 Black Americans cannot vote due to disenfranchisement laws.
Counties with larger minority populations have fewer polling sites and poll workers per voter.
In 2018, Latinx and Black Americans were twice as likely as whites to be unable to get off work while polls were open.
25 percent of voting-age Black Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID.
Geographic isolation is a major barrier to Native American voters due to the inaccessibility of nearby polling locations in many reservations. In South Dakota, 32 percent of Native voters cite travel distance as a factor in deciding whether to vote.
More than one-sixth (18 percent) of voters with disabilities reported difficulties voting in person in 2020.”
It hasn’t gotten any better.
Here is the link to the whole article.
https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020
Keller. I am not talking about infrastructure deficiencies but about rights. Everyone has a right to vote but you bring up man made barriers. Not the same thing.
Infrastructure deficiencies deny voter rights.
These are man made barriers to voting.
Tear them down.
andy– “Man made barriers” ?
“Everyone has a right to vote” ?
So let me ask. Who gave anyone the right to vote ?
I can assure you that it was not the Flying Spaghetti
Monster.
It seems that in this country, White men who owned
property gave themselves and themselves only
the right to vote .
After many years and many hard fought court battels,
protests and debates that right was granted to black people
and women. Many people died in those struggles to
secure those rights. rights that were bestowed upon
them by people who could vote.
Only Maine and Vermont do convicted felons
always retain the right to vote.
Only citizens are allowed to vote.
Even people with green cards and permanent
residency are not allowed to vote.
People under the age of 18 are not allowed
to vote. It wasn’t until 1971, with the passage
of the 26 th amendment, that people between
the age of 18 and 21 gained that right.
Jim Crow laws requiring “literacy tests” for
black people to cast a vote persisted well into
the 1960’s.
All barriers and all laws restricting the right to vote
are “man Made” they always have been.
The laws that determine who can vote and who can’t
are man made , as are the efforts to make it as
difficult as possible for some people to vote.
There is no difference.
Andrew, please list the pornographic books 📚 in the public library, and which library specifically.
I hope he accepts the inevitable request to fly a MAGA flag or a Biden-Harris flag. If the Supreme Court spoke on this, Madison is opening the town up to a lawsuit, which seems to be foolhardy, to his stubborn-mule attitude. I would to this it is like everything else on the Vineyard: yard sign liberalism.
I’m a liberal, too, but these Black Lives Matter signs make me laugh at this point, often shrubbery half-grown over them, years and years after the murder of George Floyd and a movement in retrospect where we can see black lives have always mattered, maybe you just didn’t notice.
I would normally say let Madison fly the flag on behalf of the town, since he’s apparently reflecting the will of all those he represents, if he’s abiding by the law. If he’s not, what other laws is he willing to break for opinions and positions he holds?
What law is Madison violating?
I feel he is likely to find out.
Good for you!!!
I applaud the town of Aquinnah for this decision.
Bravo.
But as MR. Rappaport implied, this is a slippery slope.
Be prepared for nut cases of all flavors filing lawsuits.
The reality is that there are plenty of white supremacist
and homophobes on this island who would love to have their hate flags
on town owned flagpoles.
Any Just in case anyone is wondering,– My opinion is that
if you think the white race is better than any other race
(even one ) and
people shouldn’t be able to live the life style they choose
and marry whoever they want, YOU are bigoted racist POS.
And if you think I’m talking about you, I am.
More dehumanizing intolerance from the antisemitic liberal left. Does the moderator know what POS means? Hint: it’s obscene, like the person who uses it to describe Americans who disagree with his Nazi-speak.
Don, (to use your own choice of words) I’d like to know what flavor nut-case do you identify as? I feel it is necessary at this point to know who we are reading comments from everyday multiple times a day.
And to Thomas’s point above, I think we should all identify what yard signs we have in our front lawns. I for one, as a black man living in on predominantly white liberal island, never owned one thing emblazoned with a statement asserting that my life matters. I seem to only see that on white peoples lawns for some reason.
I would like to live in a town that flies the flag our soldiers fight under, the flag that represents those soldiers that are lost or imprisoned during their service and the flag of the state to which I pay taxes. All the other political statement via pole dressing is just political speech by the town that we all belong to. And I hope Aquinnah voters get sued for the crap that their town administrator just stepped in. Run your town. Leave national political fights out of it.
Don has made very clear who he is, you have not.
Do you have a problem with Gay Head flying Tribal flags?
Should the flag usage be controlled at the local or Federal level?
Thank you, Bill! I hope people understand how important your comment is on so many levels. Thank you, again.
Bill- If I have to define myself as some sort of nut case,
I would say that I am pretty far on the left, and consider facts
when forming an opinion. Certainly some people here
would consider anyone who actually looked at facts —
(that is verifiable facts) when pondering an issue is a nutcase.
For example ;
If I think that just because after nearly 4 years no one has
produced any actual verifiable evidence of widespread election fraud
someone will think I am a Jew hating, radical leftist liberal
nutcase with an incurable case of TDS.
They will say that I am crazy to believe that every single one
of the more than 60 cases that came before the courts in regard to election fraud were dismissed
because there was no evidence. It’s obvious to them
that every single judge was paid off , probably by George Soros,
and all the so called “recounts” were predestined to show trump lost.
Or if I point out actual verifiable facts from the national weather
service showing that heat kills more people than any other
weather related event, and that directly contradicts someone
else’s belief that cold weather kills 9 times as many people
as heat does, I am a nutcase in their eyes.. It’s obvious to
them that the national weather service is corrupt and
being paid off , probably by George Soros, to “control” us.
So, I’ll take their nutcase label.
And of course, it is tautologically apparent that I am
some sort of a nutcase because I wore a colander on my
head for my drivers license photo.
To paraphrase the Firesign theater from 1971.
I think we’re all nutcases on this bus.
Bill,
Thanks for stepping up and sharing your perspective. I’m glad I’m not the only one trying to tell the elites they do not need to tell others what is best for them. We are smart enough to figure things out for ourselves instead being told what is best for us from those who never and couldn’t walk a day in our shoes. The virtue signaling with all these signs and flags is comical at best.
Carl– I couldn’t agree with you more. I can’t stand it when the
“elites” tell us what books our children can read, that our children have
to pray to a certain god when they go to school, have to learn a
religiously based idea of how the universe and everything in it
got here, can’t learn that America has a history of slavery,
(it might make some kid of an “elite” person “uncomfortable”)
they can’t say gay, (unless it’s derogatory )_ can’t say climate change, and of course,
do their best to make sure that no woman has the right
to choose when she will have a child.
We agree again, Carl, we are smart enough to figure it out for
ourselves. Those elite people have no business telling us what is best
for us.
Don,
No one is telling people what god to pray to accept those who would like to see Sharia Law imposed as they emigrate to this country but thanks to our constitution we have separation of church and State.
Yes, I agree we should no allow pornography into school libraries.
I also would like to decide how I heat my home such as with clean burning natural gas as opposed to dirty wood.
I also agree we need reasonable planned parenthood like 70% of the country. But I draw the line at liberal white people telling conservative white people they are better than minorities and must acknowledge their supremacy. It’s the liberal who thinks they are all knowing. No one is superior to another person. It’s divisive and hypocritical. Until these elite liberals live in an inner city please keep your arrogant opinions to yourself.
Carl– about that religion in the schools thing–
I don’t see any state putting up anything about
Sharia law in the classrooms, but in case you
missed it, Louisiana has mandated that all public
school classrooms have to prominently post the
ten commandments.
https://www.npr.org/2024/06/19/nx-s1-5012597/louisiana-10-commandments-law-public-school-classrooms
Last time I checked , the 10 commandments have nothing
to do with Sharia law, and that bill I just posted about
was not passed by immigrants. Where do get the idea
that liberals are telling conservatives that they are better
than minorities ? I recall tucker carlson telling us that immigrants
were making our country “dirtier”.
I had no idea he was a liberal.
By the way, I am quite certain that
you can heat your house any way you choose.
Where are you getting these crazy ideas from ?
And what is so arrogant about agreeing with you ?
Is there anything I said in my last comment that is
not true ? I certainly didn’t say that anyone was
superior to another person.
I’ll keep expressing my opinions all I want , thank you.
You are welcome to do so also.
Carl, you are one of the elites, evidenced by your previous statement that you own more than one home.
Mary,
Respectfully disagree. I’m successful and self made. Not elite. I don’t expect or demand others to do for me. Nor do I demand others to bend to my way of thinking.
I thought the mv times didn’t allow hate speech
I guess hate speech is ok when it demonizes the people you disagree with
John– It’s a bit difficult to tell which comment
you are referring to.
It could be my comment that is saying that my opinion
is that a bigoted
racist is a POS, with no specific reference to anyone.
Or it could be Jackie’s comment directly addressing my comment
where she once again describes me as an “obscene” dehumanizing antisemitic
( accusing someone of being antisemitic without cause is kind
of hateful and slanderous) who uses “nazi-speak”. Whatever that is–
I’m actually starting to contemplate whether i should sue Jackie for
her continuous slanderous comments about me, or the Times, for
allowing it.
Just taking a rudimentary look at the legal definition of
slander, I think I would have a pretty good case against both of them.
it’s not just occasional name calling–it’s repeated false accusations
with intent to defame.
Any of you lawyers out there want to review Jackie’s allegations against me
and take a slam dunk case ?
dkdondondon@gmail,com
Really Don??? For a guy that throws a ton of metaphorical bombshells you sure do have a thin skin. Threatening legal action to silence with those you disagree with it a bit fascist no? If you can’t take it maybe not engage so much.
Carl– maybe my skin isn’t as thin as you think.
Jackie’s comments on most articles these days
have an accusation of antisemitism in them.
Her wrath is usually directed at me, and she consistently
attempts to defame me. It seems she is having some success, as someone recently commented that i have directly
made derogatory statements about her religious
beliefs in a most derogatory and antisemitic way .
I responded to it.
I’m not going to bother looking that comment up
but I ask that the commenter accusing me of that
post to verify it.
That is me saying some horrible thing directly
about Jackie and her religious beliefs.
The implication is that I used a derogatory
trope like “dirty Jew”– directly to her.
And let me be clear, I am not calling her a dirty
Jew– I am not implying it and i have never used that
phrase. So put down those pearls you are clutching ,Jackie
I am not calling you that disgusting antisemitic slur.
Calling someone an antisemite is pretty
offensive you know. Even in this thread she
accuses me of “nazi speak” for condemning
racists and homophobes.
Her accusation that I am using “nazi speak”, implies
that I agree with the
policies of the nazis and am just trying to confuse
people. Like the “double speak” of the oppressors
in the George Orwell book “1984”.
To people here that
don’t read everything I write, their imagination
is the limit, and it puts a seed of suspicion
that I actually am an antisemite.
But– back to the topic.
I live on an Island, and
many people in the community know me.
There are reasons for libel laws.
I wonder what you would do or think if every time
you posted something I disagreed with,
I claimed that you were a pedophile.
Time and time again– Hundreds of times.
Regardless of the topic.
And when you said you weren’t I just
claimed that you think about being a pedophile
and secretly lust after underage boys.
I do it, and I do it again and again and again.
And then, If you saw people agreeing with me
that maybe you actually are a pedophile,
what would you do ? Honest question.
Should we try it out and see what happens?
Sam would certainly allow me to level such
accusations if i worded them carefully.
Or maybe I’m just tired of Jackie’s unfounded lies.
Let me say right here, If i did sue and won
I would donate any money I received to the ADL ,
of which I am a card carrying member.
Don, you do the exact same things to conservatives. You twist their words, look for meanings in them they don’t truly mean and throw it back in their face with a dose your a POS racist, bigot MAGA homophobe.
But to answer your question if i defend pedophiles I would hope you start and end every post to me with you defend pedophiles. And if I did make such a defense then I would deserve it. Don, sometimes you take things a bit too far and when someone pushes your buttons you can be a bit sensitive. My advice let it go and stop digging your hole deeper.
What hate speech did you see?
Calling someone a bigoted racist POS is hate speech
And it’s just stereotyping and prejudice to make you feel good about yourself
Can someone say “virtue signaling “
John– I didn’t call anyone a bigoted racist POS.
I think I am entitled to criticize bigoted racist.
I also don’t like serial killers and rapists.
My comment was not in response to any person
commenting here. Just my open opinion.
I get it that some people think racist are “good people”.
I don’t.
I get it that some people think antisemites are
“good people”
I don’t
I get it that some think white supremacists are “good people.”
I don’t.
Some people actually are some or all of those these things.
I get it. It’s not illegal to be any one of those things, or
all of them at once for that matter.
I just think they are vile bigoted P’sOS.
You can defend them all you want.
You are free to do that.
I will criticize them.
If criticizing people for being bigoted
racists or rapists is virtue signaling,
then I’m guilty, and proud of it.
#goodwork. And thank you.
Interesting Biden campaign commercial shows people with MAGA flags. It claims he only supports one flag, the American flag.
You can’t have it both ways. Appease one group of people and their symbols because you use them as political capital, then demonize another group and their symbols because you need to point fingers
This pride flag controversy comes from the same people who gave you ” we’re a sanctuary city, just don’t hold us to that
John– I respectfully think you might have a misconception as to what
a sanctuary city is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city
This is definitely a slippery slope.
Expect requests, or demands, for other flags to fly. If they are turned down, expect legal action.
To me this looks like a clear case of overreach. No public official should assume that all constituents or residents think the same on any issue; nor that he or she knows how others think; nor that the majority has a right to impose unwelcome ideas and symbols on a minority; nor that he or she has the right to tell constituents (and visitors) what to think; nor that he or she has the right to make privately held positions official, with banners representing one group displayed on public land and thus given an official stamp.
Citing the recent Dobbs decision as a reason to permanently fly the pride flag is a mental disconnect. It is guaranteed that some residents of and visitors to Aquinnah agree with the Dobbs decision, which pushed questions of regulating abortion back to the states. (BTW, far more abortions have been performed annually in the US since Dobbs than before.)
Oak Bluffs has the right idea, not Aquinnah.
Keep town flag poles ideology-free.
Now that pride month is over the flag should come down.
The American flag is ideology.
You see it on pickup trucks.
Too big for the pole.
Flies day and night.
Beside a taller and bigger Trump flag.
Ideal…
I suppose it’s time to take down all flags flown on town property. I’m sure there are many residents and visitors to Aquinnah who feel the American flag symbolizes racism, oppression and colonialism. If the flag poles should remain ideology free, they shouldn’t fly flags at all.
I say skip the town flags entirely, except for the Stars and Stripes.
It’s a more potent gesture for us citizens/humans to champion our tolerance for all people than an anonymous municipal flagpole.
Wear a rainbow wristband , or a BLM hat, a preach tolerance doggy-vest, or whatever supportive statement meaningful to you.
Put a sign in your restaurant window that proclaims your business’ tolerance.
Or just a tried-and-true bumper sticker on your car.
Better yet, live everyday as an example of tolerance for all, and speak up and out when racism or bigotry presents .
None of this need be flag-poled.
As a resident of Aquinnah and a member of the VFW I thank you for your remarks Mr. Simpson, well said!
A rare second comment on a single article from me…
We are all Americans. We are united under the American flag. We get attacked (and sometimes do the attacking) in foreign countries under the American flag.
If any of us had a gay son or daughter that served our country and died, what flag would the coffin be draped in? What flag would the town lower to half mast? It would not be the rainbow, pride, or progress flag. That I can tell you this with certainty and if you disagree, prepare to be laughed right out of this little room that we call the comment section of MVTimes.
“If any of us had a gay son or daughter that served our country and died”, the American flag along side the Gay Pride flag.
Do you object to the Police Memorial Flag being flown on government flagpoles?
To having the the black stripe replaced with a rainbow stripe?
The coffin will be draped as the family whishes.
All flags should be lowered to half mast.
(Personally I think it is a meaningless gesture, all flags should fly Proud and Free.)
Aquinnah (fka Gay Head) is laughing at you.
The majority of the Island wants the Gay Pride Flag flown.
Should we the people decide?
Or just straight Veterans?
Bill– Don’t be so sure that if a gay member of the military
who was an Aquinnah resident died in the service of their
(our) country, that pride flag wouldn’t come down to half mast.
This is offensive
Comments are closed.