As former President Trump prepared to address the Republican National Convention with his new pick for vice president, J.D. Vance, the Island community continued to react to the stunning news over the weekend of an attempted assassination.
The former president, who was injured in his right ear, which was pierced by a bullet at a rally in Pennsylvania, survived the attempted assassination. According to national media, moments after the first shots rang out Saturday, the gunman — 20-year-old Pennsylvania resident Thomas Matthew Crooks — was killed by U.S. Secret Service.
From Milwaukee to Menemsha, Americans have been reflecting on events that have shaken the country. In church pews, in backyards, and on beaches, Islanders have been pondering words from Presidents Biden, Obama, and Clinton that violence should have no place in American politics.
President Obama, who is believed to be here visiting the Island at his home in Edgartown, said, “There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy,” on social media on Saturday evening. “We should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics.”
Islanders have also been pondering a plea by Biden, from a rare speech from the Oval Office of the White House, to lower the temperature of politics.
Religious leaders on the Island have been calling for peace, and to settle political differences. Democrats are condemning the violence, and offering condolences to the family of a Trump rally attendee who was killed, and two who were seriously injured.
A West Tisbury family that identifies as Republican was watching the rally on TV when Trump was shot.
“We were sitting there in shock. We could not believe this could happen,” said the wife, who identified herself as a Vineyard native. The woman wished to remain anonymous, noting vitriol, and out of fear of being ostracized for being a Republican: “This country is just going crazy with the division. It’s really bad.”
The Republican woman has witnessed that division here on the Island. At Cronig’s, she said, she witnessed tension in the checkout lines; she said that she saw an elderly woman spit on for voting Republican; and she said that she herself put up a political sign that was stolen within minutes. As a Vineyard native, she said, the political tension in recent years has been worse than any other time, including the 1960s. She said that up until recently, she hasn’t gotten pushback for voting Republican; in fact, it used to be fun to tease other Islanders about whom they vote for. But that’s changed.
“On the Vineyard, if you wear a red hat, you are ostracized,” she said.
The West Tisbury woman feels that vitriol and hatred on a national scale led one irrational young man to follow through with the assassination attempt.
“That was my first thought: They want to take him out,” the West Tisbury woman said when she watched the assassination attempt on Saturday. “Well, they’ve done it.”
Asked if she was hopeful that the tension would simmer down following the attempt on the former president’s life, she was not convinced. “I would hope so, but I don’t feel that that is going to happen,” she said. “It’s so ingrained to hate Trump, and hate anyone who wants him to be president.”
Other political and religious leaders on the Vineyard are calling for peace after the attack.
Jonathan Chatinover, the chair of the Democratic Council of Martha’s Vineyard, condemned the shooting.
“We deplore violence of any kind,” Chatinover said in a statement. “We wish everybody who was injured a full recovery, and we send condolences to the family and friends of the person who died. We hope this terrible incident raises awareness of the urgent need for gun control measures, especially an assault weapon ban.”
During Sunday services, religious leaders addressed their congregations.
“God of love, wisdom, and hope, bless us with your holy light of peace in this country,” Father Chip Seadale of St. Andrew’s Episcopal Church said.
“Make us ever mindful that violence is not the way to peace, but that our very practice of peace is the only way,” Seadale said. “And help us, every one, to contribute to the continued well-being of this great experiment of America, this beautiful and yet still imperfect union, by setting our focus on you alone, that we may continue to bear proudly that torch of liberty which has been lit in this land, and work to blot out ignorance, prejudice, and poverty.”
Rabbi Caryn Broitman of the Martha’s Vineyard Hebrew Center shared concerns on Sunday. “The political violence our nation witnessed yesterday is a tragedy for us all,” she said.
“The attempted assassination of former President Trump, along with the murder and wounding of citizens attending the rally, is part of an increase in political violence that threatens the foundation of our democracy. Citizens and public servants working for the common good have been increasingly targeted over the past few years. From poll workers to local officials, from teachers to journalists, from congressional representatives to judges and police, this violence shakes our very foundation as a society,” she continued.
“I pray for the people and their families who were victims of violence at the rally in Pennsylvania yesterday. We grieve the tragic loss of life, and pray for those in need of healing. I also pray for the healing of our nation. May we take this episode of violence and pain as an urgent call to change course. May we come together around the core values of our faith and of our shared national history to build a country where each person is treated according to the infinite worth they possess. May this horrific act of violence not lead to a spiral of more violence. May it rather bring us to reject violence for love and compassion. As the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. said, ‘Love builds up and unites; hate tears down and destroys … Darkness cannot put out darkness; only light can do that.'”
The Rev. Dr. Mark Winters, pastor of the Federated Church of Martha’s Vineyard, spoke out against political violence. “My concern is firstly all who dedicate their lives to public service, either in elected office or public safety. I am grateful for them, and we need good people in such positions now, more than ever,” Winters said.
“Democracy is often messy, but it should never be violent,” he added. “We must solve our differences through dialogue, and by building understanding of one another. I lived and studied in Northern Ireland for a brief time, and I have often remembered my friends there as I see the divisions deepening in the U.S. We cannot go down that road. We must always honor each other’s humanity, especially when we disagree. Violence only ever makes things worse.”
The Rev. Charlotte Wright, pastor of the Chilmark Community Church, included former President Trump and other victims from the rally in her opening prayers: “Gracious and loving God, we ask that your presence be known to all in these turbulent and troubled times. Help us to remember that love and acceptance should be our guiding words. You, who taught us to love one another, please walk with us on our path with a gentle hand upon our shoulder. Stay close to us and love us always. In your name we pray. Amen.”
Let me be the first then to comment on these pages which for more than eight years have demonized, dehumanized and vilified President Trump. On these very pages, Donald Trump has been portrayed as the second coming of Hitler, the usher of a new Nazi era. How many times have commenters fear mongered that a second term of Donald Trump’s presidency would end democracy and begin Fascism – a claim not only preposterous, but dangerous. Only last week Joe Biden admonished his supporters to “put Trump in a bullseye.” Is it any wonder then that someone believed he was not only permitted – but obligated – to kill the former president? Those in the media and those who have participated in that demonizaton on social media are accessories in this attempted assassination and murder.
Well said, John!
I’m gonna let Keller have this one…
Jim– Thanks for letting me have at it .
so far, a motive has not been determined.
He was a registered republican that gave $15 to a democratic
organization on jan 21 2021. There is very little
known about his political views.
One thing we do know is that he fits the profile
of many mass shooters. He was pretty much a loner,
he was picked on, and he had some awkward social skills.
It’s quite possible that he was just another run of the
mill kid that snapped and decided to commit
mass murder. He was smart, so he knew that he was
shooting into a crowd and fully would have expected that
innocent people would be killed or injured.
An event such as a trump rally could have afforded an
opportunity to go out as THE most famous mass murderer
if he had actually killed trump.
One think for sure that Mr. Budris and Mr. Kelly are missing here, is the
rhetoric from trump himself, that has arguably raised the
level of tension.
By Budris’s logic, the streets should be full of dead immigrants.
But at this point, we don’t know the motivation, so I will withhold
judgement. But, I’ll be back !
We can’t wait. I guess you missed the irony and sarcasm.
PS Punctuation at the end of a sentence goes in the space immediately next to the last letter. How can you not know that? (Does not require an answer.)
Trump Said He Will Be a Dictator on “Day 1,”
Hitler ended democracy.
Were his claims preposterous?
In the bullseye is a centuries old figure of speech.
It is common for MAGA to target their enemies.
Bullseyes are targets.
Should social media be targeted on “Day 1,”?
Bullseye?
Should Truth Social be targeted?
It’s leaders arrested for attempted murder?
Has MAGA ever demonized, dehumanized and vilified President Biden (ouch, that’s got to hurt).
Hitler is Trump’s favorite author, next to who ever wrote the Christian Bible…
You spew hate you get hate.
Some of them are good people, not many.
Proof of Biden to “put him in a bullseye ”
Or are you just parroting his lies?
I’m 1,000% positive that it called for Biden and Clinton to be assassinated. Even asking Russia.
Violence is never the answer or going to solve problems.
Could you share with us all the outrage you clearly expressed at the “hang Mike Pence” chant ?
John–
perhaps you missed this nice little video from
the sweetheart of the republican party:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyKL2yNoWvM
I see a bit connection here between the first thing
she talks about, and then what she does.
How about you ?
So–ok it’s just a coincidence that she talks about
democrats destroying the livelihood of farmers
and the hogs that she kills with her nice gun.
maybe you don’t get the connection.
But all good MAGA republicans hate those RINO’s
You know– Republicans In Name Only,
They are the traitors.
So maybe this guy makes it a little clearer about how to
handle these traitors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZkdeE18YG4
I can’t find the actual full ad, because it has finally
been taken down across all platforms.
But the video above has some stills in it.
You can get the idea.
John — I get it about people referring to trump
as “Americas Hitler”– pretty bad.
What do you think about this guy’s disturbing comment ?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/15/politics/kfile-jd-vance-comments-trump/index.html
I wonder of you know who trump’s VP pick is ?
John, these pages reflect the political sense of the Island.
Who should control these pages
One of the few books that Trump is fond of is Mein Kamph.
Hitler was dictator.
It is the only way to make meaningful change.
Will one day be enough?
John, it seems you must have missed the last 8 years of Trump’s rhetoric as far as spewing hatred, vilifying other elected officials with juvenile nicknames, he’s false claims, mocking disabled people, spreading racist tropes and scapegoating the opposition party for every problem under the sun and much, much more.
Holding someone responsible for breaking to law (repeatedly) is not a form of vilification.
But rather than continue, I suggest you read the key points of Project 2025, the GOP playbook which, despite Trump’s backpedaling and disavowals, is basically what we should all be aware of and come to expect if he holds office a second time.
Well stated, Robert. Trump supporters tend to be conveniently selectively blind to the statements, actions and conduct of Trump, himself.
The liberal left is in denial about their antisemitism and that they have forgotten entirely about the hostages still held in Gaza.
The liberal left is so busy hating Trump and Israel, they forgot to love America and Americans.
Never voted for Mr. Trump but I can’t count how many times readers and commenters of this paper have trashed me (and Mr. Trump) for offering a more conservative take on big events of the day, like our open borders, college tuition debt relief, Iran, Israel/Hamas etc. For years, anyone who didn’t tow the Democrat line, subscribe to the Liberal/Progressive Groupthink, has been called lots of bad things, from Fascist to Nazi to racist, homophobe etc. Seems to me it’s the Left, fired up by AOC, MSNBC and others, who are first to throw stones, to up the heat and target conservatives and others for abuse. From President Biden to the liberal media outlets to Hollywood, to college professors on down to elementary schools, the anger is palpable. Hitler has been brought up many times. I experienced this personally just days before the shooting in PA! It’s real and it has indoctrinated young people who shout out their beliefs with little understanding of the facts and allow little room for debate. It was inevitable, I guess, that such a young person thought killing the Republican candidate was a good thing. Maybe he thought he would be regarded as a hero. As we await more details from the shooting, let’s do our part and turn down the vitriol and allow the election process to play out.
you know the shooter was a registered Republican, right?
So are you inferring all Republicans are assassins?
See letter to editor in this issue by a D. Hodson on continued Hitler references. You can’t make this up.
What’s not true about D. Hodson’s letter? Do you deny trump is coming straight out of Hitler’s playbook? Do you deny trump saying he wants to be a dictator on day one? Do you deny trump claiming the media is the enemy of the people? Do you deny that trump feels the president can do whatever he wants, in or out of office? And do you honestly believe he will not take the Supreme Court’s decision about immunity and run rampant with it? Do you honestly believe trump cares about anyone or anything other than himself?
I am watching the RNC convention and I could not be more proud of the speeches from the delegates, absolutely beautiful. Let me be the first person to say on this platform, I am proud to vote for Donald Trump as the next president, he dodged a bullet and I am so thankful for the grace of God he survived, let the light shine in…and the best man win, Donald Trump.
I have to say that any woman who would willingly vote for a sexual offender, among his many other “attributes”, confuses me.
I have go say that any man or woman who forgets the abused, tortured, and raped hostages still held in Gaza, dead or alive, do not confuse me. Hypocrites and antisemites and pro terrorists have disordered thinking and contribute to the state of hatred and violence we are experiencing.
Horrifying that a human being— a father and grandfather and former (and next) president was nearly killed by a sniper a few days ago, and this article has comments promoting still more hatred. Democrats have every reason to be as miserable as they are. Biden doesn’t stand a chance now of winning in November and Dems are well aware.
Jackie– I don’t think anyone if forgetting
about the hostages that the terrorist Hamas
organization is holding.
We all want them safely back.
I certainly do.
I will again fault the Netanyahu administration
for their brutal efforts to secure their release.
Bombing Gaza into rubble and killing tens of thousands
of innocent people, including thousands of children
does not seem to be working. I deplore the violence
and atrocities on both sides. More violence is not the
answer.
I certainly do not condone the attempted assassination
of trump. We have a well established process for
the peaceful transition of power. I strongly think that
process should be respected. A peaceful transition respecting
the will of the people and our constitution should
not be subverted with lies, violent mobs or assassinations.
I do agree with you that Biden has little chance at this
point. I would love to see him drop out of the race.
I also expect that if Biden loses, Ms. Harris will certify the
results.
Keller. The bombing of Hamas is working. A little bit in the future it will be over.
andy of the 240 hostages taken on oct 7, over 100
were released during the fall cease fire
an unknown number have died from
friendly fire during the bombings–
3 were killed by IDF forces while following the internationally
recognized rules of surrender after escaping
their captors.
116 remain unaccounted for.
I don’t know andy– if we just look at the numbers
100 + released during a cease fire, and 116
still captive, out of 240 it seems the number rescued
during this incredibly violent period is pretty
small.
You may think the bombing is working,
but the cease fire actually did. If the priority
is to get the hostages home, it seems pretty clear
that negotiations and cease fires work.
If your priority is to seek revenge and decimate
a culture, bombing is the way to go.
Good luck with your assertion it will be over
a little bit in the future.
The question is when it’s over how many ,if any, of the
hostages will come home alive?
Your success rate on predictions here isn’t all that good.
Don, let’s write in Tammy Duckworth and George Clooney for president!
Jackie I am proud of you especially for your support of Israel but also for your evolving movement away from liberals. I might have it wrong but I read what you post.
What Jackie said
Thank you Sara. Takes guts to comment in this hateful forum.
I congratulate you Suzie, on being brave enough to post your support for Trump on this site. The party of tolerance only when you agree with them, if you’re a Trump supporter, forget it.
Suzie, when Hitler ran for office, about 30% of the German population voted for him. Several years after Hitler died, a poll was taken and 68% of the German population felt he had done a good job.
If I would have been living in France at the time, I would have joined the French Resistance.
Wow. Republicans are vilifying anyone against the destruction of our Democracy by their leader? You are afraid? It is the MAGA party that keeps referring to blood baths if they don’t win. It is the Maga party that won’t accept free and fair elections. It is the MAGA party that is in love with assault weapons. The shooter was a registered Republican, but of course it is the Democrats who are to blame. Now, Trump has chosen JD Vance for vice president. He also directly blamed the Democrats. That is certainly lowering the temperature. Wasn’t it the MAGA Party and it’s right wing Supreme Court “Justices” who have granted Trump almost blanket immunity including killing opposing whoever he considers enemies? This whole thing is outrageous from start to finish. You want a dictator, someone who is a convicted felon and a convicted sexual offender as President? Wake up people! Get yourselves a gigantic vat of coffee.
Exactly.
They will never be able to provide proof of Biden saying anything about murder or death to anyone.
Sadly you can’t squeeze water out of a stone and so
it’s poor poor victim conman and it’s maga trumpet cult. Honestly don’t people see the little boys playing dress up with military style clothes and masks to hide just like the kkk of years ago, proud frightened cowards.
Vote for who you want to leave your daughters granddaughters and female family members with.
It’s fine if you want them to have no control over their bodies and the government to keep track of their menstrual cycles. Remember that the justice system will be dismantled so anyone who is assaulted etc will have no recourse and if impregnated from rape molestation or incest they will be forced to carry the pregnancy to full term and deliver it and the rapist molester will have rights to be involved with the child.
Don’t forget about Jordan and his assistant wrestling coach showering and sexually assaulting all those young boys while he was on the other side of the wall in his office ignoring those cries for help from those little ones being raped by a sick old man.
I don’t have any young children
If you do not like trump do not vote for him. The list on Biden is longer but will never change your mind or many others so all it does is inflame unstable people. The people who love Trump are not bad people they have a different view from you so move on. Anything social media puts out is not changing minds. But this kid who gave money to the Democrats most likely got gas lighted into doing this by Biden’s language so this is on him.
Enough with the big lie about the destruction of democracy. And the existential threat of to the country. We had 4 years of Trump and those 4 years were better than the last by leaps and bounds.
As far as this nut being a registered republican he donated to ActBlue that encouraged people who lived in states with closed primaries to register as republicans in order to vote for the worst republican candidate to give the democrats a better chance in the election. But before I make that leap I’ll wait to see if this is in fact the case.
If as you say MAGA with all their assault rifles are the problem I would just say it they really were the problem you would know it. Please stop the fear mongering and vote for Trump who is going to be the next President. Be thankful we will be energy independent and looked up to from around the world again. Relax and have a cup of tea.
I’d truly like it delineated as to why anyone would think that the years under Trump were better than the years under Biden.
Maybe because we could buy groceries and gas without dipping into our retirement funds just to live week to week. That might be part of it. Just sayin.
Carl, you said be thankful that we will be energy independent. Trump specifically said today that he will stop renewable energy projects. (I encourage everyone reading this to install solar panels and small windmills on their own property to truly become energy independent!)
The Chinese are building renewable energy projects at a fast pace! No other country is even close! The Chinese are going to throw off the heavy and burdensome mantle of fossil fuels, to the tune of saving 2 TRILLION per year!!! Who’s going to rule the world 🌎 then?
Let’s consider this scenario: someone shoots president Biden. What would liberals/democrats/progressive folks do? The liberal media and Hollywood would melt down in rage. The streets would be full of protesters burning cars and trashing businesses. College campuses would experience anarchy. Meanwhile Republicans and conservatives would unreservedly condemn the shooter…no strings attached. (Remember that it was a radical democrat that shot steve scalese at the annual congressional softball game a few years ago.)
.Let’s pray this doesn’t happen.
It’s too bad the liberal left is so antisemitic and dehumanizing of half of all American voters. What the left is screaming about the right can certainly be said about themselves. Republicans are not wearing those stupid keffeyahs and screaming GENOCIDAL at Jews wearing yarmulkas and Stars of David on the streets.
Vance sees a opportunity to become President himself down the road. This will further jump start his road there.
I’m thankful Trump survived the attack but deeply disturbed it happened at all, as are most Americans who love this country.
What Barbara said!
Augustine wrote there are two cities. The City of Man and the City of God and in each of them two distinct peoples. Citizens of God have food to eat of which the world knows nothing. In the City of Man the most shameful thing is revealed without a twinge of shame. They try to purify themselves by the dirty water from within. Light is proclaimed as darkness; darkness is proclaimed as light . The City of Man invites deception by a willing blindness.
I don’t want to hear another word about Jan 6. The Dems are entirely responsible July 13. The rhetoric was leading people to believe their lives will end with another 4 years of a Trump administration. All you have to do is look at the comments of the most frequent posters to the MV Times to agree with me.
Big difference between an insurrection brought about by the lies of a self centered narcissist who can’t accept the fact that he legally and without fraud lost an election and a 20 year old registered republican taking a shot at said narcissist.
What Jim said!
Carl, first, Trump did not deserve to be attacked. Like many others have already said, there is no place for violence in American politics. Prayers are being sent to Trump and all of the people affected by the attack, especially those who lost loved ones.
Second, is it possible that January 6th was the door that opened up an acceptance of violence in the US? Trump has suggested that he might pardon those people who were violent on January 6th. I’m horrified that anyone in the US thinks we should pardon violent actors.
We must say yes to PEACE!
When was leaving the stage he yelled, Fight! Fight! I’m not voting for a person who is calling on his followers to fight.
Mary,
I appreciate your comment. And I honestly believe you mean it. But you have to fight back after getting knocked down. That’s what the strong do. I even appreciated when Joe Biden said the same thing after his stumble during the debate. Both guys are fighting for what they believe is the right direction for America.
Trump cares nothing about the right direction for America. What he cares about is enriching himself off the gullible. What he cares about is sucking up to and trying to look tough in the eyes of Putin and the rest of the borderline dictators he so desires to be. That and using the immunity claim to keep his a** out of jail. Anyone who honestly believes he cares about anyone or anything other than himself needs to remove the blinders.
Carl, Biden did not call on his followers to Fight! Fight! For some reason, that’s the party line for the conservatives. Several RNC speeches were filled with Fight! speech. Biden called for Unity in the world. Trump called for unity in the conservative party to Fight democrats. The republicans are not calling for Peace, which is what I’m looking for in the people I vote for. Peace.
Mary, Biden also employs this type of language. Referring to an election as a fight, or as something that requires us to fight, has become standard, regardless of party. Biden has been talking about our “battle for the soul of the nation” for a long time—a synonymous comment.
To wit:
” ‘As your president, I will fight for democracy with every fiber of my being, and I’m asking every American to join me,’ Mr. Biden added.”
My interpretation of Trump’s usage: He was conveying to the shaken crowd, “I’ll be okay, and we will keep going for the win in spite of this attempt on my life”. Something along those lines, at least. Seeing as he was bleeding and not yet out of harm’s way, he had to be brief.
I don’t think either candidate was suggesting a physical war. More like a can-do spirit. That said, the country is so on edge, and everything is so hotly contested, that maybe we should abandon certain metaphors and buzzwords, especially when their literal meanings involve violence.
I, too, favor more peaceful messaging, but dramatic phrasing is perceived by many as energizing, thus its popularity.
I should add that while Biden mentioned all Americans in that call to “fight”, it was within the context of an anti-MAGA speech, aimed more at appealing to his supporters than unity. Unfortunately, no matter who is speaking, everything comes down to an us-versus-them mentality as of late.
The attempts at finding common ground need to be stepped up. I thought Governor Josh Shapiro did a standout job with his remarks after the assassination attempt. He was earnest and concerned for the safety of everyone. There are still people trying to do the right thing in America, but they’re often overshadowed by exaggerated, inflammatory chatter. I see this from both parties daily. To say the anger is coming from only one side is to ignore half the glaring problem, and we can’t fix something we don’t acknowledge.
What Mary said!
But are you ok with American citizens still being held in jail without trial?
KMurphy
I think that I have seen somewhere that some people
think criminals should not be granted bail
and held until their trials. And as we know, sometimes a trial
can take a long to get done. Don’t do the crime if you
can’t do the time, as they say.
It actually seems to be a pretty common practice
in the U.S
“Jul 3, 2024 · More than 400,000 people in the U.S. are currently being detained pretrial – in other words, they are awaiting trial and still legally innocent. ”
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/research/pretrial_detention/
I’ve always had a problem with that.
Particularly because most of them are poor people of color.
Are you ok with the people held in solitary confinement
in Guantanamo without even
being charged for years ? — Decades ? I know, they’re not Americans,
so we can hold them without charge, torture them and
perhaps sometimes kill them .
You know, like the evil Russians and the even more
evil Iranians do to our people sometimes.
Although it seems that Russia has managed to garner
a lot of support from one political party in the U.S lately.
Maybe they aren’t evil– just a little confused .
Oh ! –now I remember where I head that about keeping criminals
locked up–It was Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, Waters and
a few other people on Fox news. I also listen to WXTK sometimes.
And of course they want to “throw away the key” for those who
assault police officers– at least in most cases.
But I do have a hard time figuring out which of the criminals
who assault police officers they think should be on the street
and which ones should rot in solitary for years.
I would appreciate it you could enlighten me about that
paradox. If you know, of course.
Thanks
Keller it was anticipated on day one that hostages would die or be
Killed by Hamas. Hamas has no culture and I am happy they are eradicated.
Mary, I am not sure where your news originates, but President did not say he would pardon those who were violent on January 6th. Quite the opposite. He indicated he would pardon those who were not violent, which comprised most of those arrested. Of the 2000 or so already charged or still to be charged, the actual violent ones measure in a very small minority. And many of these were provocateurs. The conditions of those incarcerated are abominable, especially so for those political prisoners being held in Washington. And that’s what they are: political prisoners.
John– could you post any verification of your claims about
the abominable conditions of prisoners held in Washington?
I didn’t realize you were an advocate for better conditions in the
country’s jails. I applaud you for that.
He did say “most” –nothing about whether they were violent or
peaceful.
I notice he isn’t talking about pardoning any
of the the many “wrongfully convicted ”
people who took place in the riots following the murder of George
Floyd. But I guess they were all guilty and none were wrongfully
convicted.
I think it’s interesting that white people rioting are all
wrongfully convicted,
but a couple of them “got out of control”.
John, please document your source.
Hang Mike Pence?
OK, everyone, let’s just remember which former president wanted to shoot protesters in the legs, frequently references “AMERICAN CARNAGE”, uses the term “bloodbath” in almost every speech, and was willing to allow his vice president to be put in imminent danger while he sat in the dining room watching it all unfold on TV. I hope he does a re set on his comments, but sincerely doubt that he will be able to contain his hateful rhetoric for more than a week.
Words have consequences, hence, the “re write” of Trump’s convention speech. Let’s see him try to unite the country. What a joke.
What Maureen said!!!
Sorry Carl– You’re going to hear about Jan 6 again.
The idea of violently altering the will of the
people started right there.
Precisely!
Not the summer before? Selective outrage much? The only person shot and killed was an un armed Airforce veteran who was a female killed by an overzealous male capital police officer who left his weapon in the men’s room of the capitol during his career. He should have been fired for that.
Carl– Ashley Bobbitt was armed with a mob of thousands that
would have followed her through that final barricade
Where Ashley got shot was literally at the last place
officers had retreated to. They were less than 50 ft from the chamber
that Nancy Pelosi and other members of
congress hade retreated to. The mob was intent on finding
Nancy and would have dismembered her with their bare hands
if they were given the opportunity.
Not to mention hang Mike Pence
How do you call a police officer doing his duty,
which was to protect members of congress ,
“overzealous” ? That’s a ridiculous statement.
It would be like me saying the secret servicemen who
murdered Matthew Crooks ( the ALLEGED shooter ) were
overzealous. They are good enough shots that they could just
have shot the gun, thereby disabling it. But they were
“overzealous” and just killed him.
I am sure that if we looked hard enough we could find some
unflattering details about at least one of the secret service
agents involved with returning fire. Clearly, there was no
imminent threat to them. They were just doing their job,
protecting the former president, and were a
bit “overzealous” in their response just like the officer who was
doing his job on Jan 6. The officer involved with the Jan 6 shooting could
clearly argue that he felt his life was in danger.
I bet you think that’s ridiculous, right ?
It is– but not as ridiculous as your comment.
What’s ridiculous is for you to bring that shooting on Jan 6 up.
Does it matter that she was a veteran ? What—Male police can’t
shoot violent female veterans that want to murder members of congress ?
What does gender have to do with it ????
And what does your “dirt” about that officer have to do with anything ?
But let me give you some advice— if you don’t want to
hear about Jan 6, don’t bring it up .
Don,
Please don’t try to lecture me on imminent threats and the use of force continuum, something I lived under for many years. There was no imminent threat and to prove my point only one shot was fired killing an unarmed citizen. If there was an imminent threat believe me many other police officers would have discharged their weapons. I have been involved in police shootings and very rarely only one officer discharged their weapon when confronted with a real threat.
The officer was bigger stronger than his perceived threat but he didn’t know that because he fired blindly through a closed door. No weapon shown no threat made to him and he was not protecting any elected official at the time of the shooting he was protecting property. He was an incompetent wanna be cop as real police would call him. Anyone who goes to the men’s room to relive himself and forgets his weapon only for a civilian to later find in what supposed to be one of the most secure buildings is unfit for duty. Period.
And as you are seeing in this latest incompetent SS service detail gender has everything to do with it. How can you have a 5’3 person guarding a man the size of Trump. The four female agents underperformed, one asking what do we do, another not being able to holster her weapon and the iconic photo show one of them holding her sunglasses in her strong hand while trying to protect the x president. It’s all there for you to see. Protecting your sunglasses before the president is embarrassing. And holding sunglasses in your strong hand means that you have to take precautions seconds away to draw your weapon is incompetence.
I don’t know about you Carl, but if I was one of those
officers I would be scared s******s .
Perhaps you didn’t see the video of the shooting.
I don’t see him shooting blindly through a closed
door . Yeah, ok, technically the door was closed
but the glass had been smashed out and Ashley was the
“tip of the spear” as she crossed over it.
You can also clearly hear someone shouting that the officer
or officers had at least one gun drawn.
on this video you can clearly see an officer pointing
a gun. Let me ask you, Carl, if you pointed you gun at
someone while in in uniform and on duty and they ignored
you and advanced towards you, what would you do ?
I sincerely doubt that you would ask them to please not
kill the speaker of the house . Here are 2 videos from
different angles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z3YBtzwmHk
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/capitol-shooting-that-led-to-ashli-babbitt-s-death-captured-on-video-99180613572
Can you really sit there and say the officer blindly
shot through a closed door ?
Ashley was fully aware that officers ware armed.
I am actually somewhat surprised that all the officers
didn’t empty their guns and kill 20 or 30 of them.
At that point, none of the people in that hallway were
innocent tourist taking a walk through the Capitol.
Luckily for them, the police were very restrained.
And how were they to know that Ashley or anyone else
in that mob was unarmed ? The insurrectionist
opted to not go through the magnetrons.
They weren’t shouting ” break the artwork”
At the end of the hallway was the door to the
speakers chamber with direct access to the house
floor where congress people had retreated to.
Of course, you can take the republican method
of debate and lie about the facts while berating
a uniformed police officer doing his duty.
Don,
I’ll try again as many of my comments have not made it. Not sure why. lol. This is my third attempt to you on this.
But being scared s*****s does not allow for deadly force. You asked what I would do and I would use proportionate force as trained. I have been outnumbered many times in public housing projects while on duty and in uniform having rocks and bottles thrown at me. Not once did I draw my weapon. Why because I knew I couldn’t legally use deadly force. A person breaking a window could be stopped by other means. Pepper spray, baton, hands on. This was not a justifiable use of deadly force. Only one shot was fired and I believe it was an accidental discharge. If deadly force was justified many many other officers would have opened fire. Do you think the rioters after George Floyd should have been shot? Don’t you think the cops being overrun in their precinct were scared? You really don’t know what you are talking about on this subject. You ask how do they know they weren’t unarmed well that is simple. No weapons were shown. Police are trained to use proportional force. You can’t start capping rounds because you are scared. The guy shot one round through a closed and locked door killing an unarmed civilian. If this happened anywhere else the elites would not cover it up. Those are facts Don.
She climbed through a window. She defied the cops. she got shot. Would you do the same if it was your window?
Carl, you’re changing the subject.
Then feel free to ignore my comment
What Don said!!!
I would really like to figure out what is beyond the pale when it comes to comments on this site. Subtle racism is fine. Pointing out the racism with humor or at least an attempt at humor, is not. Pointing out another commenters ridiculous ideas. Sometimes allowed. Other times for no discernable reason, not allowed.
Let’s add claiming those commenters who have been anti Trump are accessories to an attempted assassination to the acceptable side.
It’s a hard and thankless job having to read all of these comments but, please, do better.
I have never heard one Democrat call for violence against anyone. We dislike Trump because he’s promised to be a dictator and spews vitriol which riles up his base into a frothing lather of hate against Democrats. Please spare me the “Dems did this” nonsense. The shooter was a young, white, male gun nut. You know what would keep this kind of crap from happening? Joe Biden’s assault weapons ban. But no… Republicans are fine with mass shootings in schools and their own guy getting shot at, as long as America keeps bowing at the altar of the AR-15. Let’s see how many Republicans lawmakers continue to proudly wear their AR15 lapel pins now.
Millions if these guns out there. It’s crazy. Civilians don’t need them. Bring back assault gun ban!
Peter, there are about 20 million AR-15 semi-automatic style guns in the US.
Ban them!
Peter, thank you! Civilians needing an AR-15 is akin to civilians needing aircraft carriers or tanks.
Well that would be unconstitutional. The ban did nothing to decrease gun violence. There are not enough democrats to vote for gun control. Why, because it doesn’t work and it’s unpopular. It’s not even being mentioned in this election cycle for those reasons. It’s a loser for the Dems.
And if those guns were in the hands of violent fascist MAGA republicans imagine the problem this country would have. Don’t believe the liberal narrative that somehow gun owners are the problem. After all Joy BEHAR thinks someone should have reported the nut shoot Trump for buying 50 rounds of ammo. For those that don’t know 50 rounds of rifle ammo is nothing. Whether handguns or rifle I shoot a minimum of 250 rounds when going to the range. Most people buy in bulk at 1000 rounds at a time.
Carla, you obviously don’t know what a gun nut is. By the sounds of it he didn’t even own a gun. He borrowed his dad’s rifle, a crime in some states but not in PA. I know gun nuts and they are they aren’t violent people they just like guns. If they were violent you would clearly know about it and it would be a problem. Mental health is the problems, guns not so much. And as for Dems not calling for violence I suggest reading social media. Plenty of it there. Had a not so nice back and forth with a dem at a local beach club saying to a group of us that she wished for only two inches to the left and we wouldn’t have to worry about another Trump presidency. So now you know.
Should giving a relative a gun that that relative has the right to purchase be a crime in every state?
How many MAGA would be pleased to watch Biden stroke out at the next debate?
You?
In it to win it?
Our country is at stake ?
Carl, one of the problems with guns is the finality of the choice.
Actually I would argue, that is what makes it a problem solver and peacekeepers
Definitely what Carla said!!!
Definitely what you said 🙂
I’m not hearing anything other than vitriol from Dems here, only a few days after an assassin’s bullet nearly killed a former president. That would have been tragic and yet no self-righteous, Maga-hating democrat seems to be able to do anything other than spew more of their hatred for republicans, their fellow Americans. “Compassion” from dems seems only to come out for terrorist causes. The innocent bystander who was killed by the assassin threw himself on top of his wife and child, heroically trying to protect them. May his memory be a blessing.
Jackie– What is in the comments on this thread
that meets your definition of “vitriol from dems”?
please cite an example.
Here are a few from republicans that I think
have a bit of “vitriol” in them– one of them is a biased opinion
with little or no factual basis.
The other is clearly a racist slur. It is my personal opinion that
racist slurs are by definition virtriolic and should be
condemned by everyone regardless of political affiliation.
“The Dems are entirely responsible July 13. ”
” Republicans are not wearing those stupid keffeyahs… “
I grew up in a Republican household and voted Republican in many presidential elections. The party started to change when Reagan was elected. They started favoring big business over the working man. I was not always happy when a Republican won the presidency but I never feared for our democracy before. Christian Nationalism has taken over our courts. They are using Trump to accomplish their goals and as long as they manage to get him elected and he can sit behind the resolute desk he will do their bidding. I am sad and scared for our country’s future.
Let me add that only one presidential candidate is currently under a gag order for inciting violence against the judge, his family and the prosecutors, is a convicted felon, and has been found civilly liable for raping a woman. Those are facts. And saying them out loud is not inciting violence. It’s stating the truth.
Yes!!
Carla, yes you can say that as they are facts. And so I can also say that they will most likely be overturned on appeal. It was a shame prosecution that a lot of legal scholars have opined both liberal and conservative. It’s law fare. And to think the next president will be the person you described all at the hands of the Dems. Thank them for another 4 years of Trump. I sure will.
Name three legal scholars that have opined it’s a shame prosecution. Tell us where the said it was a shame.
I meant to say sham. But Alan Dershowitz, Jonathan Turley and many others reporting on the NY case where is was convicted have said this is a sham. To be clear that’s what I was referring to. But the others are what they are. The civil case about the alleged assault in the changing room is a doozy.
Carl– thank you for agreeing with Carla’s facts.
it’s rare these days for republicans to acknowledge
facts. I hope no one calls you a RINO.
According to some, RINO’s are the worst traitors
and should be hunted down. Watch your back, buddy.
It took some time, but I found the full
disgusting and inflammatory video by Eric Greitins .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo-k0aVSlq0
what do you think Carl ?
Ok, Don my thoughts are that I can discern between metaphors and someone saying they want to actually hunt their political opponent. Here is the difference that I see. When the media and the president himself tells the country that if his opponent is not stopped your life will be over as you know it. Existential threat, will throw you in jail, will be a dictator on day one, democracy is over. Elected officials and the media should be held to a higher level of honesty. Trump is not an eloquent speaker for sure but the bloodbath comment was clearly referring to the car industry going to go bust. The good people on the both sides is debunked. What hasn’t been debunked is the liberals fear mongering telling people their all their right will be taken away. When Joe Biden was asked if he was ok and he said he is fine but his brain is not, the media rushed to say it was a joke. But when Trump said he would be a dictator on day one he was clearly joking too. It’s the liberal hypocrisy and the media stooges ginning up this false narrative. I’m not convinced that Trump will win but I am convinced that Biden is not fit for office and so are a lot of democrats. So let me ask you Don if this were Trump doing what Biden is doing would you be calling for the 25th. And do you think this guy running for office was actually threatening RHINO’s? You have a very simple mind if you do buddy.
Carl– Coming from a guy who says ” the dems are entirely
responsible for July 13″ and then claims a political
ad featuring a swat team busting down a door in search of RINOS
is not inflaming the situation is clearly shorter on synapses
than I am.
Carl– Did you hear Kimberly Guilfoyle’s speech
at the RNC ? Chock full of the ridiculous fear
mongering that you claim the dems do.
And speaking of Kimberly and little Donnie,
how long are they going to play the
“we’re engaged ” card so they can “live in sin” ?
By the way, little donnie and Kimberly had been having
at it for about 10 months while little donnie
was still married.
Too bad I don’t have a school age child in
Louisiana. If I did, she could tell me all about that
commandment about adultery.
And I wonder how a second grade public school
teacher adequately and honestly explains that
one to her students.
But maybe you doubt that there is any god given
prohibition on that– It’s number 7 in case you want
to look it up.
Could you tell me which commandment forbids
consensual sex between 2 adults of the same gender ?
Carl — do you know the difference between fact and wishful
thinking ?
Yes, fact is Donald Trump is twice the President Joe Biden will ever be and wishful thinking is that Joe Biden has all his faculties and will be the re elected. Clear enough for you Don?
And to be even more clear please see my response to your post to on the pride flag article.
Carl, Biden didn’t start a trade war with China, pushing up the prices for all things made of steel. Car prices skyrocketed because of Trump. Try again.
Mary,
Check your facts. Biden increased the tariffs on China escalating the trade war.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/#:~:text=In%20response%20to%20China's%20unfair,protect%20American%20workers%20and%20businesses.
Carl, if the felonies are overturned on appeal, the judges are behaving badly.
I agree with Carla!!!
When hatred is out of control like this, violence is sure to follow.
We agree on that one Jackie
Yes, Jackie. When a society accepts absurdity expect atrocity.
What Carla said
I saw this coming. 😔 It felt inevitable given the inflamed state of things in our country. Yes, this act must be universally condemned, and not on a perfunctory, PR-driven basis. Only on the most sincere terms will that condemnation make any difference going forward.
The phrase used most often lately has been “threat to democracy”. Close behind is “free and fair election”. I don’t think there’s a greater threat to either than potentially seeing one of two viable choices removed through assassination, which would render half of the U.S. voiceless. Not a single American should ever be put in mortal danger—or, as occurred on July 13th, made to lose his innocent life—because of support for a candidate.
And no candidate deserves to be murdered or sustain injury. I have seen many heartless reactions over the past few days to this extreme display of violence. While they’ve left me disturbed beyond what I care to convey here, I was—and remain—unsurprised. By the callousness; by the lack of concern and introspection. Somehow, this is our new norm.
Like countless others, I have always tried to stay hopeful about the future, but it no longer feels realistic to believe in societal reconciliation. I will cross my fingers that I’m wrong on that front. Our nation can’t take much more chaos. Let this ugliness be a turning point from which we decide to rise and improve.
Katie Lane, I did not see this coming. What I see coming is what Dr. King saw coming, before he was gunned down. I see coming what Mr. Robert Kennedy saw before he was cut short. Honestly, this road is a long one, very long. It will leave the hateful by the wayside. One very difficult step forward after the other. And then another. There is no other path forward. I would extend my hand for yours on the trail.
William, thank you for this lovely response and the needed reminder that the important things in life take time. Your words are the most encouraging I’ve read amid this ordeal, and I will keep them in mind. ❤️
Katie– to date the investigation into this has not
indicated that Mr. Crooks was particularly interested
in politics. We don’t know what his motivation was,
so I think it’s a little premature to be blaming
the media at this point.
It’s not like Mr. Crooks had a van plastered with trump stickers
and was sending bombs to democratic lawmakers.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/maryanngeorgantopoulos/van-covered-pro-trump-stickers
I never mentioned the media.
I didn’t assign a specific motive to this murderer, although I do believe he had one. The intended message behind my comment goes beyond his actions. I was talking more about we the people—about the public reaction I’ve encountered and what I see as the only appropriate stance on violence of this nature.
While I tend to be reserved when it comes to jumping to conclusions, I don’t agree that folks who are theorizing about political motives are premature. Not in this case. Both liberal and conservative news outlets are referring to this event as an attempted assassination, an act which, per Merriam-Webster and the like, is motivated by politics. (Religion, at times, may also be a factor, but there are no indications of it being in play here.)
He didn’t stumble at random into the rally of the presidential candidate who is viewed as most controversial by some. To divorce the setting, target, timing, and cultural circumstances from the outcome seems, in my opinion, more far-reaching than considering their potential relevancy.
My comment, while in response to you was not
meant to be claiming that you think the media is
at fault. It was more of a generalized comment.
I could have clarified that then, but I am now.
I can certainly see how you would think that.
sorry.
Correction: I meant to say far-reachingly dangerous. As in it’s foolish to ignore the impact our takes, reinforced over and over, *may* have on the impressionable. We as a nation must be more responsible about how we speak and label, especially now that everyone is online. It’s too easy for bad messages to spread like wildfire.
One day, I will write a comment without deleting necessary words or overlooking a typo. Today is not that day.
Charlotte, you picked the right words: Love one another. ❤️
I wonder what the verdict will be when
trump has a military tribunal haul Liz
Cheney before them on charges of treason.
Trump has made it clear as to what he thinks the fate of
a traitor should be.
But in case anyone is wondering, it involves a few guns.
These comments only reinforce the inherent ignorance and hatred Liberals possess.
Agree, John Axel.
What John said
Hatred of?
Hatred of any concept that they don’t hold dear. Hatred of other ideas. Hatred of all people who don’t share their twisted view of reality. Conservatives want everyone regardless of race, creed or political thought to succeed and share the common goals of freedom and liberty. We don’t hate liberals, we feel bad for them.
“Conservatives want everyone regardless of race, creed or political thought to succeed”, including Biden?
John, if all conservatives want everyone to succeed, then why is the conservative platform to treat immigrants like evil aliens 👽 from outer space?
Mary, success isn’t given it is earned. Jumping the line with your hand out and making demands of others is no recipe for success.
Want everyone to succeed. Unless they’re female or African American or Hispanic or Asian…should I go on?
Jim, conservatives are for a smaller government where less people are reliant on handouts. It’s counterproductive not to want everyone to be successful unless your objective is to keep people down and lie to them that they are victims all to gain power. Those who do that are liberals in case you haven’t caught up.
John –that’s a nice hateful statement.
I keep wondering though, where are the “hateful” statements
that liberals are calling conservatives.
I haven’t seen any statements like
“These comments only reinforce the inherent ignorance and hatred conservatives possess.”
coming from Liberals.
In addition to letting you know that your comment sounds a little —oh, I don’t
know, hypocritical , I have also pointed out a hateful racist comment by
a conservative calling the tradition clothing of a culture she clearly hates “stupid”
and even yourself claiming that liberals were completely responsible
for the attempted assassination.
Jackie says she sees nothing but “vitriol” from the liberals here.
I certainly see plenty from the conservative side.
You comment that I am responding to and comment #one on this article
are example # one and two.
As George W Bush said ,you “can’t take the high horse and then claim the
low road.”
Anyone accepting of drumpf is accepting of the awful disgusting things that he said about the military service members being cowards because they died in combat.
I noticed that mostly the male species is accepting of and in denial of what 4 years of that hateful cowardly man baby.
Accepting that your female relatives will become homemakers and incubators is shameful.
I know that I have cared for you and your family at one time or another and am disappointed what you want for the country you live in.
Trump is a horrible human being….he lies, he rapes, he defrauds…He is a right wing, anti black, anti brown skin person and he is going to try to put women back in the kitchen and the bedroom. We need health care for women. Sometimes abortion is necessary.
VOTE JOE BIDDEN WHO HAS DONE A LOT FOR OUR COUNTRY! LOWER PRESCRIPTION INSULIN. HE HAS DONE MORE TO HELP THE WORKING CLASS THAN TRUMP WILL EVER DO.
Joe won’t be on the ticket, in case reality has passed you by.
Jackie– I certainly hope you are right on that one.
Brenda. Everything I ever learned of importance I learned from my wife of 54 years and she was a homemaker.
andy– thanks for sharing that- it explains a lot.
What does it explain? I read Andrew’s comment as one of respect and love for his wife.
I thought the same, Katie. I read Andrew’s appreciation in there, too. Keller’s snark and failure to understand needs no explaining.
I would only change Mr Engelman comment as it was and is my mother and my wife. My mother raised 5 kids by herself and wait for it…. No government handouts. Too proud but worked herself to the bone.
Most of the comments here and the letter written elsewhere today by D. Hudsdon are
exactly the kind of pretentious rhetoric that encourages the thinking and actions of
disgruntled, fearful people. The hyperbole and repetition of a narrative helps drive an idea into the listener’s mind. This is what the media excels at and most posts here exhibit.
Would that we all would be like a prayer I found from the 50’s among my mother’s papers.
“Keep me from getting talkative, and particularly from the fatal habit of thinking that I must
say something on every subject and on every occasion.” Think on these things please!
Thank you for sharing this prayer, Marcia. It rings true and practical, especially in a time with too many opportunities for sounding off online, without having to pause.
Thank you! Marcia. Not since the Civil War, have Americans indulged in such an orgy of hatred and vitriol against their neighbors and fellow citizens. Though the candidates bear responsibility for setting the tone here, they would have little impact if the extreme wings of both parties and their loyal followers did not so whole-heartedly support them. There are real and serious problems facing the Country right now, but taking hardened unyielding positions based on villifying the opposition is hardly the way to solve them, an approach that Congress seems locked into. We need to talk to each other and, more important, listen, to each other.
Paul, what about Trumps speech during 2016 campaign where he claims he could xxxxx someone on Fifth Avenue and his supporters would still vote for him? The SOURCE of the vitriol is coming from the right-leaning conservative.
Well said, Paul.
To many people are watching “The View”, “MSNBC” and reading the weekly VINEYARD GARDENER written by Lynne Irons as they all have created Anger, Hostility, Vilify and Traduce those who oppose them and the Gazette`s editor always puts submitted opposing views about her column right in the shredder!
The MV Times isnt to far behind! I am debating if I should renew my MVT subscription…
Just curious to find out why my last couple posts have been put in the shredder.
Curious as I seem to be in line with everyone else just some on the opposite side.
Please advise.
~Woody~
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