Local immigration attorneys and advocates on the Island are scrambling to offer services and advice to immigrants living on the Island with last week’s election of Donald Trump who, as a candidate, has promised to ramp up the deportations of migrants and to shut down the border.
On an Island with a significant population of immigrants, many are anxious to learn what could happen in a second Trump term. Advocates and attorneys have been hesitant to publicly provide advice, noting that policy under Trump hasn’t been set in stone, so things could change.
Martha’s Vineyard has a higher percentage of immigrants than the rest of Massachusetts — immigrants account for 18 percent of the general population in the state, while the Brazilian population alone on the Vineyard makes up roughly 20 percent of the Island’s year-round population. That doesn’t include immigrants from Jamaica, Eastern Europe, Venezuela, and elsewhere.
In Island schools, the population is an even starker contrast, with the Portuguese-speaking community in some schools nearing or even surpassing 50 percent of enrollment.
Some Islanders have already jumped into action in an effort to develop pathways to safety for the community, and there are resources available to assuage concerns under a second Trump presidency.
School administrators held an informational session on Tuesday night to offer guidance.
The president-elect has made several promises during his campaign, like signing an executive order that would end birthright protections, and using the U.S. military to deport migrants. He has also appointed hard-right officials to key positions in his Cabinet who have stated that deportation is a primary goal, and they have outlined plans for developing camps for immigrants.
But some Island attorneys are urging caution considering all of the unknowns. “It’s important to understand that we don’t know yet exactly what is going to happen. Some changes that Trump has promised to make, like issuing an executive order that ends ‘birthright’ citizenship, are simply not possible under current law, no matter what his administration says,” said Island immigration attorney Rachel Self.
Self said that the promise to deport every undocumented immigrant in the country isn’t possible, given the capacity of the agents and courts involved. And Trump will likely be challenged by attorney generals across the country, as was the case in his prior term as president.
Still, Self said, there still will probably be an increase in enforcement of immigration law under Trump. She said that an important starting point is to know individual rights that are already in place. Quite simply, anyone, regardless of citizenship status, has the right to remain silent if approached by law enforcement. Providing accurate information, or none at all, is the safest course of action if approached.
If ICE or the police arrive at a home, Self advises immigrants to keep the door closed. Ask who they are, and ask to see identification. Police who have an arrest warrant are allowed to enter a home, but immigration agents can’t enter unless they have a certain kind of warrant. Self said that a Form I-205, Warrant of Removal/Deportation, doesn’t give agents the right to enter a home. A warrant signed by a judge is the only kind of warrant that gives them the right to enter your home.
Connecting with local lawyers and nonprofit law groups can be helpful in scenarios where an immigrant has a run-in with the law, or is approached about their immigration status.
- M.V. Community Services and the Regional High School provide confidential resources for immigrant children, teens, and families. The Guidance Department at MVRHS can be reached at 508-693-1033.
- The Massachusetts Immigration and Refugee Advocacy Coalition (MIRA), a statewide nonprofit, focuses on the amplification of immigrant voices for better advocacy. Their website is miracoalition.org.
- An Immigration Resource Clinic will be held every other Thursday from 9 am to 4 pm at Martha’s Vineyard Community Services, in conjunction with the Community Action Committee of Cape Cod and Islands (CACCI). The clinic provides an opportunity to learn more about immigration rights for yourself, your family, or your community. It’s also a time to connect with free or low-cost lawyers who can better assist with paths to citizenship, green cards, or safety protocols when it comes to law enforcement. They are available over text at 508-488-9932, or via email at cclazaresq@gmail.com.
- Another resource is the Immigration Resource Center, which provides free and low-cost options for immigration lawyers on the Cape and Islands. For more information, call 508- 771-1727, ext. 140. Any calls are fully confidential.
- During the first Trump presidency, the Island banded together in a few ways to ensure the safety of the community. The “We Stand Together” group was instrumental in assisting intersectional human rights’ efforts on the Island, with immigration being central to many of their projects. They worked with local law enforcement and ICE to ensure the safety of Island locals.
My opinion is that the Trump will use the power of the purse to get states to unwilling help with his deportation plan. He will hold funds back from states that won’t honor detainers on illegal immigrants who get arrested. So if LE makes an arrest on an illegal immigrant for DUI they will be obligated to report and hold that individual until they hear back from ICE and if they will pick them up within a reasonable time. If the feds don’t get him they will can be released but will still have to face the dui charges. The feds will have their hands full with violent criminals being located and deported. Best advice is to live your life and don’t do anything to get on their radar. End up in court and your chances increase of deportation. The feds are going to triage this mess and are in no way going to waste limited resources tracking down working joes and students for mass deportation. If they do it’s as ridiculous as the Matt Gaetz appointment. My head is spinning on that one. Good news he resigned from Congress. Better news will be that he doesn’t get confirmed and Trump gets rid of one of the biggest problems in DC.
The President gets to tell local police what they must do?
Carl, convicted immigrants (here legally or unregular) are already being deported. That’s been happening forever. It’s boggling that Trump convinced people it wasn’t happening.
Mary, is the new woke word for “illegal” now “unregular”? Is that even a word? Never heard it before. I mean, I thought “undocumented” seemed fair enough, but “unregular”?
Did you want me to say that drug dealing is unregular? Hate crimes are unregular? Murder is unregular?
I hope it was just a typo.
Carl, so you’re okay with a white
supremacist (Hegseth) as Defense
Secretary?
His “Christian” tattoos are straight up
KKK symbols.
Ok, another ridiculous comment. I don’t equate people wearing a cross of having the cross tattooed on them as members of the KKK. There are a bunch of people who worship on Sundays that would agree with me. Where do you come up with this stuff? And now I just remembered why I don’t respond to your comments.
That is absolutely correct, Carl. I said something similar re Christian symbols being used by Christians, not the KKK’s usurping anything from any group, but my comment didn’t make it. I probably added something… untoward, lol. Also agree that some comments do not deserve a response, but always good to correct a falsehood, so thank you.
Carl, The Invisible Empire is busy growing. Just because you are not aware of white supremacy symbols doesn’t make them “ridiculous.”
They are usurped Christian symbols, Mary.
Carl, here’s a news article from France,
published in 2022, that talks about
Trump’s America.
https://www.rtbf.be/article/le-ku-klux-klan-une-bien-triste-histoire-americaine-10981961
Mary, why would I care about what France thinks about us. We just had a consequential election where we voted on America first agenda. MAGA!
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/american-isolationism
If we don’t learn from history we are doomed to repeat it,.
Carl–You consistently avoid the question of who
is “illegal” . let me keep it local–
you consistently referred to the 49 people that were
hoodwinked into going to a place they knew nothing about and
thought they would have housing and jobs awaiting them as “illegals”.
So let’s take a crack at defining that term. As far as I can tell,
you think anyone who legally applied for asylum is
an “illegal”. You think anyone who has not yet received a green
card is illegal– a child born on American soil to parents of illegals
is illegal– never mind that silly constitutional clause — yeah, you can
ignore that while sporting anut case with a full arm tattoo stating
“we the people.” You know– just an aside, I wonder how many people actually know the first 3 words of the constitution?
But 2 of Hegseth’s tattoos are symbols used during
the crusades–you know, the last time “good” Christians
invaded the “holy land” and tried to genocidally wipe out
the Muslims who were living there.
Mary seems to be wrong about his tattoos being KKK symbols
but really, that’s up to interpretation and subjectivity, right ?
Who was it here, years ago that posted Obama’s wedding ring–
with very poor resolution and claimed is was Arabic praising Allah ?
I’ll answer that– it was the guy who complains to the editor
about me using a common nickname and not capitalizing
it, even though he doesn’t capitalize his name himself.
Don, I don’t have to define what illegal is our government does. Are you saying that no person residing in the USA is here illegally? No people over staying their visa and people who didn’t check in with ICE for catch and release.
But those seeking asylum should have there cases heard and as soon as they say I’m here to make money they should be shown the exit immediately. That does not fall within legal definition of asylum but liberals do like to fast and loose with definitions of words.
This is sloppy and careless journalism when you continue to use the words immigrant or migrants rather than illegal immigrants. You needlessly create anxiety with your incorrect reporting. Trump is going after illegals and first and foremost dangerous ones. To suggest that the Brazilian community on MV is vulnerable is disingenuous.
andy– you can’t actually believe that trump will discern
between illegals and legal migrants, do you ?
Violent ones and peaceful ones ?
You and the group of usual suspects
don’t seem to be able to, and you are all one
heck of a lot smarter than trump.
He rants about the criminals, but he doesn’t make a distinction
when he talks about this pogrom he is about to unleash.
By the way, before someone jumps in here and accuses me of
anti-semitism because I am misusing the word “pogrom”,
which some think should be used only when referring to atrocities
against one culture and only one culture, here is the definition;
“an act of organized cruel behaviour or killing that is done to a large group of people because of their race or religion ”
At least you, andy. have been a little tempered on this subject
and have refrained from using really racist language. You have
not said “there are no hard working law abiding migrants here”, after all.
I know you won’t get deported, but
I just hope your maid and your pool boy don’t get deported either.
Don, you are increasingly becoming unhinged. Where has Trump said he will focus on illegals because of “their race or religion ”. That’s nonsense. If you are here illegally whether you are Irish or British any other nationality you must go back home and try to enter legally. It will take time but that’s how our laws work. Our pool boy is from Finland and we will miss him but we have been clear that now that we know his illegal immigration status we can no longer employ him.
John, just wait until buddies Trump and Putin get done with Ukraine. Then they will turn on Finland. If your Finnish pool guy goes back to Finland, it will likely be a death sentence.
Say, Mary, you may know the answer to this. Is it necessary to have a pool in order to have a pool boy? Asking for a friend.
Keller you simply must do more research you are so proud of. My native language is Russian. Pogrom is a distinctly Russian world meaning atrocities against Jews. Not against Nicaraguans or Mexicans or Hamas—against Jews. You get the word ”genocide” wrong and now ”pogrom” tsk tsk tsk.
Thank you, Andrew.
I agree that journalistic precision is important, so it would be helpful when quoting numbers to make the appropriate distinction between people here legally and illegally. I have seen quoted in this paper that the “undocumented” population is as much as 20%. Many of these are very much part of the community. If that number is even close, a lot of people here have every right to be concerned. Also, when ICE sweeps for undocumented, even legal citizens who happen to look and sound similar with similar surnames get caught up. They may not get deported, but I am sure it’s not fun. I am hopeful that the new administration will focus on identifying criminals and spend energy developing a reasonable path to legal status for people we need to be here.
Ted, thank you.
Ted, have legal immigrants been swept up in an ICE raid on the island? Or is that more fear mongering?
Jackie– you talk about other people “fear mongering” ?
Wow– just wow !!!!
Trump deportations were 1.6 million, Obama deported over 3 million. I don’t recall the MV Times running stories about the Obama deportations.
Mr. Axel,
Much like the mRNA transfections, the devil is in the definitions. The bulk of Obama’s “deportations” were not deportations under the definition we commonly understand – that is – when a person who has unlawfully entered the country is detained and removed from our soil. The Obama administration changed the definition of “deportation” to include those who made it to the border, but who were denied entry, giving a false impression of actually finding, detaining and removing illegal aliens who have already invaded our country.
John– Did obama change that definition with an
executive order ? What was the definition of
“deportation” before this changing of the definition
and after it ?
I happen to have one of those “old fashioned”
dictionaries that is in book form—
It was printed in 1988.
The definition as quoted in that book is remarkably
similar to what is in the online version of the same
publication today.
But, perhaps that change was just in governmental
jargon. I would love to see what the actual change in wording
was– I am sure you have actually seen the change for yourself.
I know how government agencies do that kind of stuff–
like scrubbing all references to “climate change” or
“global warming” from all of the state of Florida’s literature.
John, this article explains how Biden
removed twice as many immigrants
as Trump did.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/28/trump-biden-immigration-deportation-00167914
Mary,
Do you understand math and percentages? But let me simplify it for you. If Trump let in 1000 immigrants and deported 100 that’s 10%. If Biden let in 10,000 and deported 200 people that’s 2%. Biden still deported more people but only 2% compared to trumps 10%. Now do you see the problem?
Carl– nice math lesson– but do the numbers you use have anything
to do with the reality of the situation at the border ?
Could you use actual numbers of the people each administration
“let in” and the actual number of the “animals” deported ?
it seems you are just blowing smoke out of your butt
to make a point.. I’ll tell you what– I won’t even bother to look the
actual numbers and percentages up– i won’t waste my time–
I’ll just sit here and say you are wrong. just farting in the wind–
Prove me wrong Carl, and then, I’ll bother looking things up.
Actual numbers,, not some fox opinion piece, please.
And will likely prove you wrong–
If I am wrong I will admit I am wrong– how about you ?
How dare the US government enforce its own laws! Who do they think they are? I’m not advocating mass deportations but something has to be done and the current administration has only encouraged illegals breaking into the country. Some say as many as 10 million entered the US since Biden/Harris took office. Already, the migrant trains headed north in Mexico have lost steam. They know there is a new sheriff in town. They know the four years of Open Borders under Biden/Harris are coming to an end. Look for a last minute rush of the border.
Can you please post who is “Some say”? That comment is on par with the childhood “They guy told me I could have this” excuse . And please post your source of the migrant trains heading north have lost steam claim. And please make both sources reliable, and not some Fox News dribble. Thank you
Jim,
Fox News, for three years, was the only news organization consistently and accurately reporting the border crisis. Just because you don’t like what is being reported doesn’t mean it’s dribble.
Wow! Who made you the official fact checker of the Times? Obviously a liberal who doesn’t believe that Trump won and that there are already changes taking place. I’m don’t work for any candidate or party. I’m not paid to report to you, Jim. Just read something other than the Boston Globe. Suggest starting with the NY Post and graduating to the WSJ.
Peter– I think you’re being a little hard on Jim —
he’s just asking you to back your claim up.
You know, it is pretty well understood that sometimes
people post falsehoods here. Just for instance, some people
who are still claiming that trump won in 2020 without any evidence that would even remotely back that big lie up, are now so emboldened
by years of constant lies, they lie about liberals not
accepting the results of 2024. And of course, don’t want anyone
challenging the accuracy of their statements. They just lie, attack anyone
who disagrees and fabricate additional lies directed at the questioner.
If you can’t provide any evidence of your claims, you can just man up and
tell Jim that you have no evidence but you think it might be right
because you want it to be. Just so we know– Thanks
Just so you know, biden won in 2020. I read ny post ans wsj daily. Watch fox and abc/CBS at night. So these are my sources.
Nor do I believe trump is a fascist or the new Hitler as some here have posted. Nor do I agree with the Time’s editorial board who wrote that kamala harris is a “brilliant” candidate, Don…
I’m not the official fact checker of the Times, but when you use phrases like “some say” without any sources, you appear as nothing more than another easily manipulated lemming, hanging on to something that may or may not be true, but you really, really want it to be true. Also, I’m not a liberal, I’m a lapsed republican who realizes just how dangerous the new Republican Party and its current leader are. I also read all three of those papers you mentioned. The Globe for the sports pages and the other two for their perspective on the current state of affairs. And I do believe trump won, and without voter fraud. Do you believe Biden won in 2020? Without voter fraud?
Biden clearly won in 2020. Not a fan of trump but I couldn’t stomach voting for harris. My wife is very disappointed in me but what the hell. My vote didn’t count anyway since MA is a Blue state.
GOP has changed. So has democrat party.
JFK wouldn’t recognize it today, Jim. So we have what we have til 3rd party comes along.
Peter, the NY Post is known for printing lies.
Read all kinds of newspapers so you can discover the difference.
Like Hillary Clinton’s Russian hoax? Like hunter Bidens laptop from hell? Like biden corruption with foreign enemies?
Peter, one news article that I saw in Dachau showed a picture of people in striped pajamas: they were holding rakes in a garden and smiling from ear-to-ear with words saying how happy they were in their new home.
Mary, you seem to have an obsession with bringing up Nazi and Holocaust era atrocities, most of it inappropriate and irrelevant to the topic. The goals of the extremist Islamic regime are eerily similar to the Nazi “final solution”, yet you never have mentioned one word of objection to the harassment, blocking, and violence against Jews on our country’s college campuses. Today. Did you think the photos of Jews being beaten up are staged? You seem to have compassion for 1945 Jews, but none at all for us in 2024. Trump is not Hitler. I understand many liberals are still in the throes of hysteria over the election, but republicans are not Nazis, no matter how often you make that incorrect association.
Jackie–
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2024/11/18/woman-faces-hate-crime-charges-after-allegedly-assaulting-palestinian-couple-at-downers-grove-restaurant
Let me say once again that random of acts of violence
and hate crimes are reprehensible, and should
not be tolerated. It doesn’t matter if the Victim
is Jewish,Muslim, black or white, Asian Russian
gay , trans, overweight or any other thing.
read my comment again, Jackie–
And then attack me for being liberal.
How many will come in in the next four years?
As many as came in 2017-2021?
Regarding Keller’s Chicago link…
It’s never surprising but always sad to see how hard it is for antisemitic viewpoints not to acknowledge the explosion of Jew hatred happening in this country and all over the world. Hillel houses and Jewish fraternities are targeted. Synagogues and Jewish businesses are targeted. Jews are blocked from walking on campus. Hate crimes against Jews are off the charts. Online Jew hatred is out of control. Antisemites have to look hard to find a link that shows yes, Palestinians can be discriminated against too. Imagine comparing one example of one unhinged woman screaming at a Palestinian family to prove that Jew-hatred is not really any different from any hate crimes against any marginalized group. Literally hundreds of THOUSANDS of people are marching for Jihad across the globe. One has to really hate Jews to minimize what is happening to Jewish people today.
Jackie–I have not minimalized the antisemitic attacks
that occuring with significant frequency. You however
have never acknowledge that there is significantly more violence
directed at Arabic communities. No one community has a lock on hate.
You are the perfect example– simply by your omission of
any acknowledgement of the suppering of anyone but a Jew
you are openly declaring your hatred to an entire community
and race of people. I have repeatedly said that violence against
anyone is not acceptable– you think otherwise– Sorry,
Jackie– there are innocent Palestinians and they exist.
They bleed and they have fear just like you and me.
You claim you are harassed for wearing a star of David
I say that is unacceptable– I show you a clip of a woman
assaulting a man and his pregnant wife for simply having
a jacket that has the word “Palestinian” on it, and I say it is
unacceptable– Your response is yet again to attack me as an
anti semite and point out all the hate crimes against Jews.
I didn’t see you say much when 3 Palestinians were shot
in Burlington last year except to call their traditional clothing
“cheap rags: and “stupid”. Nice== real nice — fortunately for
the Jewish community, you are the exception to that kind of hatred.
Sadly the hatred cuts both ways:
“The ADL cited 2,031 antisemitic incidents between October 7 and December 7, 1,411 of which were linked to the fighting in Israel and Gaza and 400 of which occurred on college and university campuses. By comparison, there were 465 incidents over the same time frame in 2022.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations also reported an increase in Islamophobic incidents. Between October 7 and December 2, CAIR recorded 2,171 reports of bias or requests for help — 172% more than the 2022 two-month average.
Jews, Palestinians and Muslims in the US told CNN they’re experiencing a growing fear about bigotry and hatred in the wake of the Hamas attack.”
I care about both sides and condemn all violence.
You apparently only care about one side.
Or is that just more fear mongering?
America First
Deport everyone not born here, to American citizens.
No anchor babies.
Oh, good!! Melania Trump will be on the first ship back to Slovenia . . .
Juleann
🤣🤣🤣
Hautiness, moral superiority, and the cruel dehumanizing of humans is so… liberal, as long as they’re not talking about immigrants, the illegal kind. This behavior among liberals so pervasive it caused them to lose an election. Funny how that works, but not in a ha-ha sort of way.
Liberals/progressives/democrats are smarter than you and I. How dare you question their agenda! They don’t tolerate dissent.
I take offense in your statement. I’m a naturalized citizen. You sound like your grand uncle Rudolf, Mr. Hess.
Peter, glad you recognized the satire.
We should be worrying about Steve Miller.
Melania worked as a nude model in the U.S illegally.
Why wasn’t she deported ? She committed a crime–
she violated the terms of her visa–
If a Nicaraguan who was here on a no work
visa and was found taking an American job,
would you support their deportation ?
How about if that Nicaraguan was really good looking
and was willing to “show it all” with a big smile ?
Please give that Nicaraguan my number.
If you’re legal immigrant, you have nothing to worry about, if you do not break any laws, you have not to worry , get arrested, you have something to worry about, if you get caught driving without a license and causing an accident pack your bags.
Bob, if someone gets arrested and then deported, they take nothing—no bags get packed. They lose everything. It’s inhumane.
Wow. Like scofflaws lighting illegal fires in the state forest?
How does someone manage to get arrested? And then deported? You make it sound like it can happen to anyone, including you, all according to some weird, arbitrary whim by very, very mean people.
Jackie– I find it interesting that you are so uncaring about people
who are “guilty” of something relatively minor
and that is justification
to take everything they have. Didn’t you learn about that
kind of cruelty in your history classes in your synagogue ?
The nazis used any excuse to steal everything a Jewish
family had . Never again..
No, Don, the minor infraction does not justify depriving them of everything they have save the clothes on their backs and tossing them on their butt on some distant shore.
Merely being here illegally in the first place justifies that, all by itself. No minor infraction necessary.
If you don’t cause an accident you re good to stay?
Albert, who is going to pay for the military to remove immigrants?
If their green card is up-to-date, what would they have to fear?
If it isn’t, then what are they doing here?
Kevin, should people who are in the US legally be deported for a speeding ticket?
I know of people who were faced with this under Trump’s first administration.
Let’s round up all the criminals (including US citizens who are speeding on our highways) and deport them all. Don’t you realize how ridiculous Trump is when he calls for mass deportation?
Mary, you post so much that is exaggerated, what-if hysterical, or simply untrue. Where on earth would American citizens be deported to, in anyone’s hysterical imagination, I mean?
In 2022, there were 12,151 preventable deaths in the U.S. tied to speeding. That doesn’t include all of the non-lethal injuries attributable to such reckless, willful behavior.
I find that figure staggering. This isn’t a minor mistake. Vehicular infractions cause tremendous suffering. No one is entitled to break our laws and put the public at risk, and those caught doing so aren’t victims.
Citizens and non-citizens alike should have to face the consequences of their actions. Those consequences may differ depending on, among other factors, an individual’s legal status.
For both groups, the solution is exactly the same and perfectly fair: don’t do the crime.
“For more than two decades, speeding has been involved in approximately one-third of all motor vehicle fatalities.”
https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding
“Don’t do the crime.”
That’s rich coming from any conservative.
Do you object to crime reduction? Why?
I’m not a conservative, Mary. Never have been. Just someone who believes that every single one of us is responsible for keeping the country safe. There are plenty of Republicans and Democrats who have committed crimes, by the way.
I brought up the specific dangers of speeding because it seemed, and maybe I misunderstood, as if you consider it to be a very minor and harmless infraction—perhaps similar to a late library book.
If so, you are in the majority. The courts take it lightly. So does the public. Speed limits are commonly broken, and people don’t want to admit they’ve done something that’s risky. The stats, and the suffering I’ve witnessed, tell a far more serious story.
Whether someone was born here or arrived as an immigrant is never an issue for me. I only care about what makes a good neighbor—about actions—and that includes mindful driving and respect for American laws.
Not sure how anyone can disagree with that simple statement meant to protect us all equally—including migrants—but some do.
How this comment got past the moderator if baffling. Talk about misinformation and fear mongering. If you are in this country legally you don’t get deported for speeding. Site your source.
If you are here illegally and get pulled over for speeding. Bye bye. Off you go. Deportation it is. That’s what we just voted for. No oone is calling for the deportation of people here legally.
Despite ignorant mixing up of US immigration enforcement with actual rape, murder, destruction, looting, and torture of Jews, we get a bizarre watered down version of what “pogrom” means. We get a definition lifted, I could imagine, from that intellectually bereft volume, “The Antisemite’s Guide to Holocaust Denial”. Or maybe it’s just from “Wikipedia for Dummies”.
The actual and proper meaning and use of the word, “pogrom” is as follows:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/pogroms
“Pogrom is a Russian word meaning ‘to wreak havoc, to demolish violently.’ Historically, the term refers to violent attacks by local non-Jewish populations on Jews in the Russian Empire and in other countries. The first such incident to be labeled a pogrom is believed to be anti-Jewish rioting in Odessa in 1821. As a descriptive term, ‘pogrom’ came into common usage with extensive anti-Jewish riots that swept the southern and western provinces of the Russian Empire in 1881–1884, following the assassination of Tsar Alexander II.”
This time frame is when my paternal grandmother’s family escaped the Ukraine pogroms. Antisemites enjoy the idea of possibly inflicting pshychic pain on her Jewish descendants when we think about the pogroms.
It’s hard to know when to allow an antisemitic comment to just slide by, (there are so many on here, usually by the same person), but Holocaust denial/watering down seems to provide a particularly sadistic glee as part of a very ugly sort of hatred. All Jew-hatred is, at core, sadistic. We see it here in comments, on college campuses, and of course on October 7th, 2023. It is heartbreaking, really, to see it underneath this article, because there are those who are sincere in wanting to help undocumented folks face an uncertain future after having been on the island for a long time. But no one will be burned alive, raped, tortured and shipped off in cattle cars to be gassed to death. Sadistic antisemites have no abillity to care at all for illegal immigrants, or really, for anyone. The need to hate is greater than any concern for anyone, anywhere.
Jackie– let me ask you a direct question.
Has anyone on this site ever denied the Holocaust ?
“Are you really sure the Holocaust actually happened ?
There is more empirical, documented evidence that the IDF has committed war crimes that was ever presented at Nuremberg.”
Your words, Don. They’ve stuck with me, false as they are. Holocaust minimization is a well-established form of denial.
The reality:
“The IMT tried 22 Germans as major war criminals on charges of conspiracy, crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. In twelve subsequent proceedings, the United States tried 183 German leaders in Nuremberg.”
“Allied armies captured millions of documents during the conquest of Germany in 1945. Allied prosecutors submitted tens of thousands of documents at the Nuremberg trials. More than a decade later, beginning in 1958, the United States National Archives, in collaboration with the American Historical Association, published 62 volumes of finding aids to the records captured by the US military at the end of the war. More than 30 further volumes were published before the end of the 20th century.”
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/combating-holocaust-denial-evidence-of-the-holocaust-presented-at-nuremberg
Katie– please show those quotes in context.
I will never deny that the holocaust happened.
Never have– never will.
Show your alleged quotes from me in context and I will will defend them.
In the meantime, let’s talk about the denial of the genocide currently
happening in Gaza–
Keller, you have really struggled with the definition of the word “genocide”, saying when it is, when it isn’t, when it is. Now that your Pope is saying so, every antisemite agrees that what is not a genocide, is. I mean, we all know how much the Papacy loves them their Jews, and historically how helpful they can be when it comes to… an actual genocide. Isreal is attacked on 7 fronts, and no one even pretends that these actions are not intended to kill every Jew and destroy Israel– an actual genocide. “Intention” is the magic word.
It is like talking to a wall to say that war casualties, although tragic in every war, are not a genoicide. We killed how many German civilians to defeat Nazis? We took less care in saving them than Israel takes in Gaza. No matter. No sense in describing the extents the IDF goes to prevent the human shields being used as such. Who steals the aid to Gazans delivered by Israel? Hamas. Jew haters are gonna hate, regardless. It’s taken generations for Germany to recover and distance itself from the hatred that over took the entire country. No one wants to look at how good must overcome evil. When evil becomes preferable to good, we get this sort of ignorant, illogical hatred of Jews, for no reason at all, other than WE EXIST.
The context makes no difference in this case. It doesn’t negate the disrespect or erase your claim or make it more true. What you said is a classic distortion and a bold lie that amounts to denial about the sheer amount of evidence collected abd presented. Much of which can still be viewed in Harvard’s law library.
I am certain you know the Holocaust occurred. I’m equally certain that you’re willing to play fast and loose with facts if you believe you can make a point. This time, you went too far.
“don keller
August 7, 2024 At 10:58 am
andy– yet you believe the holocaust happened.
Why do you believe that ?
No war crimes ?
no genocide?
no apartheid ?
The nazi’s claimed all the same things at the
Nuremberg trials and they did not care about any
international courts, or the league of nations.
Are you really sure the Holocaust actually happened ?
There is more empirical, documented evidence
that the IDF has committed war crimes that was
ever presented at Nuremberg.
I care about international courts.
Billions of law abiding citizens around the world
do also.
Wilfully ignorant rightist continue to prevail
on this site to spew banal narratives.
Of course, you don’t have to read this
link which documents war crimes , apartheid,
and possible genocidal intent.
You know what the accusations are–
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
And they are all antisemetic lies–Right ?
By the way, I am deliberately misspelling
antisemetic – In honor of Albert’s spelling
error. I can only hope that Jackie
will continue to enforce the spelling errors
and continue to criticize people for grammatical
and punctuation errors. She is after all has
a superior knowledge of it all.”
https://www.mvtimes.com/2024/07/31/celebrat
Are they here legally? They can stay. Law breakers? Send them away. Enough is enough.
Mark, have you ever been issued a traffic citation? Should you be deported?
Mary, to what country do you imagine an American citizen can be deported?
Where are you getting your information Mary? People here legally will not get deported for a speeding ticket. Stop with the misinformation and disinformation. And shame on the MV times for allowing this.
Well, Carl, the MV Times allows plenty of conservatives to push lies. You don’t like the truth about Trump. When Trump adds a 10% to 20% tariff to all imports, and 15% of the US food supply is imported, and tariffs are a dollar-for-dollar tax increase, will conservatives be happy then?
If Trump deports 12 million people, like he said he would, who will process American food? Who will build American housing? I have a theory: Trump will confiscate the abandoned real estate. And we will enjoy runaway inflation.
Oh, and by the way, what is freedom of speech? Elon Musk tells lies on his platform almost every day. He lied constantly about the state of his businesses while they were growing. I’ve never heard you complain about Elon Musk telling lies. I’ve never heard you complain about Trump telling lies. I’ve never heard you complain about the oil industry/barons telling lies. I’ve never heard you complain about book bans. You just want to ban people you don’t agree with from having a voice.
Mary, I can’t say anything about Trump that you referenced because it didn’t happen! You are panicking about what you think may happen. If and when it does I am sure I’ll have an opinion. Your theory of property confiscation is wildly bizarre. As far as oil barons go I say drill baby drill. And you fell for the book ban scam. Are advocating for minors to have access to pornographic magazines in children’s libraries? Children under 17 cant go to an R rated movie. Would you ban books that teach you how to make improvised explosive devices from school libraries? I would. Books should be there which align with the curriculum being taught.
Carl, just because you don’t personally know someone who was subject to deportation from a speeding ticket, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I do know someone.
Mary you are not being told the truth. They may have been pulled over for speeding but the reason for deportation was that they were here illegally. And it must have been a significant violation for him/her to have been flagged. What I mean by that is when you get pulled over for a violation your immigration status is not run just your motor vehicle history.
If you are arrested as a result of that violation, let’s say for driving while suspended, you will be run for wants and warrants and if ICE has placed a detainer on you well then you have a problem. But that still doesn’t mean you will be deported. Police then have to call ICE and they will say hold him/her and they have a certain amount of time to get him/her or they will be released with the information that they have an open detainer and that they need to fix it or next time they may not be so lucky. This scenario happens countless times a day throughout our country.
That is not believable, Mary.
If Mark is here illegally than he should definitely be deported. How is this even a topic? Wheres the common sense?
The harassment and bullying of a person, based solely on the their being Jewish, is Antisemtism 101. Why allow a disturbed person to keep at this about my Hebrew School or synogogue experiences? The lies and online bullying by an unhinged antisemite needs to stop. Perhaps the comment modertor should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to free speech, thereby suggesting that it is allowed for a fool to continue to make a fool of himself.
The harassment and bullying of a person, based solely on the their political views
is political suppression 101. Why allow a disturbed person to keep at this about my views?
The lies and online bullying by an unhinged conservative that constantly refers
to anyone who disagrees with their political views as an anti-semite needs to stop. Perhaps the comment moderator should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to free speech, thereby suggesting that it is allowed for a fool to continue to make a fool of herself.
John– that’s really good– How long did you have that
illegal working for you ?
But just for the record, can you admit that those
Venezuelan migrants that ” Meatball Ron” (trump’s nickname for
you know who)
sent to the Vineyard were here legally ?
Spoiler alert– they were — otherwise Gov “De sanctimonious”
(trump’s nickname for that same meatball ) would clearly be
guilty of human trafficking. But — there were a number of
people here who insisted they were “illegals”. So who decides
who is legal and who is illegal ?
I think there is a difference for the conservatives about
“definitions” of certain words. Mr Budris thinks that Obama
somehow changed the definition of the word “deported” —
and Jackie thinks the word “pogrom” has a narrower definition
than I do.
andy thinks anyone who has crossed the
border and then applied for asylum is here illegally even though they
and the current administration are abiding by the laws .
We know trump has little regard for the law. Why would we expect him to follow it
now.
You have to let the TDS go. The country has climbed aboard the Peace and Prosperity Express. We welcome you to climb aboard, otherwise get out of the way and let us Make America Great Again!
John, Trump is going to usher in the
opposite of peace and prosperity:
chaos and inflation.
The prediction for our deficit is that
Trump will expand the deficit by 4 Trillion
dollars (the range of Trump increasing
the deficit was 1.5 Trillion to 15.2 Trillion!)
Past President of Poland, Lech Walesa,
thinks that we’ve made a huge mistake,
that Trump is a disgrace to the world.
Poland has right to be afraid, Trump
and Putin pose a risk to Poland.
I have no intention of ever joining the
disgrace that Trump is, I would rather be
like Irena Sendler, and choose to help
others to freedom.
https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7784/artykul/3443780,polish-icon-lech-walesa-slams-trump-victory-as-a-disgrace-for-the-world
And what about Biden escalating tension in Europe by allowing land mines and US made missiles to be fired into Russia with only days left in his administration? Total disregard for to a new administration coming it with WW3 consequences.
Jackie– nice of you to cite the source of your definition of the word
“pogrom” — The holocaust encyclopedia”– nothing biased is that place.
my definition came from the Camdridge dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pogrom
not “The Antisemite’s Guide to Holocaust Denial”. Or “Wikipedia for Dummies”.
I think the Cambridge dictionary is pretty well respected and not known to
be an anti semitic holocaust denying publication.
Of course, I know the root of the word, and it has a lot to do with the
persecution of Jews.
But let’s look at the roots of the word “racism”, first used in 1902 to describe
the treatment of native Americans by the original “invaders” of this land.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/01/05/260006815/the-ugly-fascinating-history-of-the-word-racism
So, Jackie– if someone uses the word “racism” to describe someone who
discriminates or hates someone other than a
native American based on their race, does that mean
the person using that word hates Native Americans ?
Sorry Jackie– trump is preparing to perpetrate a pogrom
against hispanics. I use that word because you and I both know
the evil that word describes. But you would choose to call
trumps pogrom something
else– something not so vile, since you seem to support the policy and the racism
that it entails.
“nice of you to cite the source of your definition of the word
“pogrom” — The holocaust encyclopedia”– nothing biased is that place.”
The world’s leading experts on antisemitic hatred through the ages are seen as “biased”… to people who hate Jews.
If an illegal immigrant was selling drugs to college kids, he should be deported ASAP. If a legal citizen was selling drugs to college students, I’d deport him too. Directly to jail, and DO NOT PASS GO. Drug dealing is a far worse and more dangerous crime than overstaying a visa and posing in the nude. I have friends who are/were nude models in life drawing art groups. Do liberal hypocrites want to carry on with moral outrage about them, too? Omg, naked people. Theyre on the beach, too. And they’re all liberals.
So sad to read through these entries and bear witness to the ugliness of what I see began with Trump, his lies to the American people and his cruel treatment of immigrant families including infants and children with so little regard for them with not even a list for getting them reunited.
I don’t live on the Vineyard but hope to and have spent decades there with my family during the summers.
Reading these … has made me recognize that MV, like the rest of our country, is also now polarized and polluted.
Blaming Biden for the immigration issues are unfair. Early in his presidency he tried to get a bill passed that Trump made GOP block as he also did again late in the election that ws a great bi-partisan bill… trump demanded GOP vote it down.
Never before has an ex-president demanded control of a political party when out of office until this thug was allowed in office… and folks… get ready for 2025… because he is lying to you he knows nothing about it.
This Republican Party is not of the old…. Just remember that…and perhaps many of you support this new one but it sure as heck not the old party of family values, law and order…
I am neither A Democrat or Republican… a registered independent and free thinker.
This division is so disappointing and unfortunate.
Lois, our society and culture have deteriorated to depths we’ve not seen. Every failed country on its way down, throughout history, contains exploding Jew hatred, by the way, the scapegoat antisemites have long loved to hate. Civil rights for Jews is no longer in existence\at our colleges. That should give people a clue as to what is happening, but people don’t pay attention until it impacts them personally. Voters picked the side they personally felt less threatened by. People are NOT free-thinkers, though most do not admit it or even recognize it. We’re all products of what has happened to us and we respond (and vote) accordingly. Nothing new under the sun, but people tend to forget that.
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